Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to Realm Jumpers. I'm Andrew and this is my co-host, jordan hey everyone.

Speaker 2: 0:12

We're here to dive into the worlds of fantasy and anime, bringing you epic stories and unforgettable adventures.

Speaker 1: 0:18

We'll be talking world building unforgettable villains and everything that makes these genres legendary.

Speaker 2: 0:24

So let's jump into the realm.

Speaker 1: 0:32

So what's up, dude? Anything new?

Speaker 2: 0:36

Yeah, life be lifin'. You know that kind of fun stuff, but I did want to jump in on the Realm rumors. Here A little current news. So did you watch? Dan to Dan.

Speaker 1: 0:50

Obviously, you know I did, I know you did so. Funny enough so.

Speaker 2: 0:56

Crunchyroll. Well, that was a test, See if you actually did it. Crunchyroll, though weirdly so Dan to Dan released weekly on Crunchyroll.

Speaker 2: 1:04

Also Netflix, which was interesting now there's like america or like netflix, europe, netflix, here in america, and it was dubbed and subbed the same day, which is cool. That was actually pretty good. But crazy enough and it's weird to me, but crunchyroll ignored promoting it for two months and it was a very popular, I'm assuming, because it was also on netflix and I don't know why you would not promote it, because you're just going to make people go to netflix to watch it. Uh, in my opinion, but it was very popular. The opening song like went viral. Like you know, everyone loves the opening song and the show. It's catchy as hell, dude. Yeah, it's catchy as anything. And yeah, they kind of very rarely promoted it on their social media, that's crazy.

Speaker 2: 1:55

Which is super weird because it's a very huge, it was a very big story. So, yeah, apparently they didn't really promote it. People obviously still watch it on Crunchy because they're the, the original, um, you know anime app. But yeah, they were kind of just not really promoting it. People caught on, started commenting it and, um, apparently rumor on the uh, the interwebs here is netflix and disney make way more money off anime than Crunchyroll does.

Speaker 1: 2:28

So what Crunchyroll just decided? They were going to not.

Speaker 2: 2:31

That doesn't the whole platform is for anime. Netflix and.

Speaker 1: 2:34

Disney. That makes zero sense, because Disney aren't platform. I mean, yes, they have that. You know they. They buy the rights to anime and, let's face it, netflix has got a couple of good anime-like shows that are amazing, but you know, they're not anime producers. You'd think that, yeah, no, there's got to be something going on.

Speaker 2: 2:58

It gets even more interesting. Right Not to dwell on this too long, but it is pretty interesting. So apparently, netflix and Disney you, disney they're gaining ground. They're getting more licensing deals to stream anime. Some of those deals are it's only on that platform. It doesn't get to go to Crunchyroll. To me it's weird, because even if it's on all these different platforms, don't you want people to watch it through yours? You're the one that is the most popular anime platform. Why would you not do it? Um, but hey, I don't know, I suits yeah, that's wild.

Speaker 1: 3:34

I I remember I was very excited for funimation and crunchyroll to merge. Um, you know, I was super excited for that because I I thought you know, okay, we're going to get some, we're going to get like some real push here to get a ton of content and then, all of a sudden, you know a lot of content that I loved just disappeared, and you know it's on places like high dive or Amazon prime, which is fine. You know that's fine. But, like you know, I used to pay for two different subscriptions and be able to watch whatever I want, and now it's like I pay for one subscription at a slightly higher price and I'm now I'm just missing content.

Speaker 1: 4:17

Uh, yeah, they lost content when they merged with function I feel like so there's a show specifically Ushio and Tora and I'm so mad that it's gone because it was amazing. I loved that show. Like it's. It's just yeah, we're not focusing on that tonight. That's just one of my.

Speaker 2: 4:35

It's a rant, it's okay, that's an irritation point.

Speaker 1: 4:38

for me, that's a, that's a point of contention.

Speaker 2: 4:39

Well, you take the second realm rumor because you're you're more the uh the one, the the fan of that series so yeah, hell, yeah, um you know, everybody's heard of one piece what's that? What's one piece? I know I haven't seen it.

Speaker 1: 4:57

Leave me alone that's you know what. At this point, don't watch it because it's not because it's not amazing, but because the the thing that Netflix has got going. I honestly I didn't. You know Netflix is going to end up with the the remake or not the remake, reboot sort of it's going to be like.

Speaker 2: 5:14

Oh yeah, by what studio? The good studio with studio Right.

Speaker 1: 5:19

Yeah, so the you know the the realm rumor for this it's actually not a rumor, it's fact now. But they finally cast Dragon, who is Luffy's dad. And for the One Piece fans out there. Dragon's obviously a very major character because he's a big criminal. Obviously, some of this is Spo. I'm obviously some of this is Spoiler might be. Yeah, some of this might be considered spoilers, but I'm sorry. If you haven't watched, you know, any of the 1400 episodes, then I don't really care. I think we're past the point of the spoiler.

Speaker 2: 5:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:59

Yeah, you can't get mad at spoilers at this point, unless it's on a new episode, but yeah, anyway. So Dragon is, you know, just this big badass criminal character. And anyways, they cast a guy, rigo Sanchez, and I had to go look him up on IMDb because, least with like Luffy's grandfather, for the live action. I was like I know this guy, I've seen him. He was in Sparta or not Sparta, he was in 300, you know. Okay, so at least with Luffy's grandfather, I was like I know who this guy is, he's a decent actor. But with with dragon, I was like I saw the picture and I'm like, okay, yeah, I love his face, like he, he can, he's got, he's got the eyes to do.

Speaker 1: 6:47

Yeah, he's got the super intense eyes to be able to play play dragon, and I was like, but I don't know nothing about this guy. So I go look him up on IMDb and apparently he's in fucking everything Really Well, a bunch of stuff that my wife watches, which probably yours too. To be honest, like Outer Banks, he was in.

Speaker 2: 7:03

He was in Outer Banks.

Speaker 1: 7:04

He was in the whole last season of Outer Banks and I'm like I watched that with my wife and still couldn't tell you who that dude was.

Speaker 2: 7:11

So I see he's in Goliath Animal Kingdom, which I watched. Both of those, okay, I'm looking them up now. He's been in everything, right.

Speaker 1: 7:25

He's in a lot of stuff. So I'm, I'm, I'm pretty excited for this. He'll nail the look at the very least. Um, you know I can't speak to his acting, but so far for this, you know, for the live action, for one piece it's been, it's been pretty good. I've enjoyed all the acting. I need to watch it. You know I'm probably gonna get slayed for this out there, but I hate us up period period. Us up is terrible, but the live-action actor makes him slightly less terrible to me. Is that the guy with the nose? Yeah, that's the guy with the nose. Sorry, the live-action actor. I mean he's still Usopp, but he tones it down a little bit. He tones it down enough that it just doesn't make me want to punch him in the face. He tones it down a little bit.

Speaker 2: 8:05

He tones it down enough that it just doesn't make me want to punch him in the face. I get it. Well, hey, I'll have an opinion on One Piece when they reboot it and I can watch it. Just watch the live action, dude. It's really good. I'll check it out. My brother's been saying it too. I'll jump on that.

Speaker 1: 8:19

It doesn't have a thousand episodes, so I could probably do it. So what do we have? What do you have for us for the main topic tonight?

Speaker 2: 8:24

yes, so we're just going to jump into the deep end here with, uh, some worst anime villains because, um, you know there's plenty to choose from. Um, I got a couple, I know you picked one and, uh, you probably, we probably both agree on this little tiny list that we made here of of who they are and why. So, no matter what series in the future that comes out, I'm pretty sure griffith will always be my number one worst anime villain from berserk because he is the most terrible, shittiest person ever made in any series and anything. I'm sure you'll agree he's up there at least. If he's not number one for you, I know he's up there I.

Speaker 1: 9:07

You know we had this. We had, we had the beginning of this argument a long time ago, or not, maybe not a long time ago, but we had the beginning of this argument, uh, a while back, and I was going to argue with you that is it griffin or griffith? Because I could never remember which. Is it griffith, griffith okay, so it is griffith. Okay, so my bad, it's. Or Griffith, because I can never remember Griffith. Griffith, okay, so it is Griffith. Okay, so my bad, it's Griffith. So we were arguing about whether or not Griffith was, in fact, the worst anime villain and I was going to say, you know King Bradley from Full Metal Alchemist, but yeah, no, he's pretty terrible, remember I had to bullet point it. Yeah, all right, so let's reenact our bullet points.

Speaker 2: 9:49

So I think the thing, besides him just being the worst, is he actually is really fucking cool when he's introduced. He runs the band of the Hawk. He's a bandit. He's got cool white hair. He looks almost like Alucard Hawk blue eyes that can see through your soul, like it's very dramatic, of who he is. And he's also a badass fighter. Don't forget him. And guts fucking two. Verse one's odd a demon, crazy sword, manslayer guy that's. That's like a giant fucking monster and they fought him together and they were doing really good. So he's a good leader. Um, you know you gather a bunch of you know society's casts off and turn them into an army that it is so damn well they end up getting, you know, promoted to be part of the military. You know they're like they're a family right. So you know you know the whole golden era. You know era arc or whatever it you're like. Okay, he's, he's cool. You know he makes some morally compromising decisions to get some money for his military.

Speaker 1: 11:00

I mean, they're a mercenary. They're a mercenary.

Speaker 2: 11:04

It's like they got to do what they got to do. No ditty, but if you get me, you get me on some of those choices.

Speaker 2: 11:18

But the whole crux is you know him and Gus's friendship and Gus being, in my opinion, his only equal, even though I don't think Griffith really saw him as an equal until Guts defeated him in one-versus-one combat and got to leave. But what you start to see is that Guts, as Griffith, actually probably never saw his soldiers and his men and soldiers as if they're family. They were just, he owned them. They were property.

Speaker 2: 11:42

They weren't really brothers and sisters in arms, they were owned by him, so so more like a cult than a family well, more like he's playing chess and they're all his chess pieces and his goal is to take over as the king and he's going to marry the princess and he's going to. He has all these. I'm going to rule the world and you know all this stuff which is cool. Whatever, he's a man with the plan. He's a man with the plan and he's going to do. He's got to do. Now I can respect that, that's fine. But to the point of when you know guts defeats him and he leaves this man just loses it. All his careful chess playing goes out the window. He beds the princess, the king finds out, he gets imprisoned.

Speaker 2: 12:25

Band of the Hawk have to go on the run. They're hunted down. I mean it's terrible. And while he's in prison he's starved and tortured and all this stuff. So by the time Guts finds him and tries to free him because he didn't know about any of this he left. The man is a shell of himself, man, he can't even hold a sword anymore. They cut his tendons, they starved him. He weighs like 20 pounds, soaking, wet, bandaged. I mean his torture mask is of the bird, the griffin. It's sealed to his neck. I mean it's terrible. You know we get it.

Speaker 2: 12:59

It's horrible, but that's when you know, the whole paranormal part of berserk kicks off and the eclipse happens and good old griffith has to make the choice is he going to sacrifice everyone in his unit that sees him as their? You know, dad sees him as their protector so that he can gain power again. And he makes that choice and it's one thing you know to choose that and they're just killed off. It's a completely different thing when it's an eclipse, sunset, that hell itself opens and literal demons are eating your men in front of you and ripping them to pieces and you're like, hey, cool, whatever, as long as I get strong, I don't really give a shit.

Speaker 2: 13:39

So it's pretty bad, um, and then, of course, guts is there and they. He tries to save everyone and he can't. And the one time he doesn't have his sword, that's the size of a fucking horse with him. The one time he needs it doesn't have it. Um, and you know, the other part is the whole love triangle. Guts and Casca are together. Casca was devoted to Griffith because he saved her from being what's that thing? Where the nobles go in your town and you're marrying me. I don't care that whole thing. Oh right, I, yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:11

There's a third word for that, but I don't know what it is. Yeah, he did it to her.

Speaker 2: 14:14

He saved her. Well, he kind of threw her a sword to kill the noble. If she wanted to save herself, she did. She was kind of in love with him, kind of obsessed with him, but she really wasn't in love with him. She just kind of like, you know, in her mind he was her savior and she falls in love with guts and you know I'll tiptoe around this, but pretty much, you know, poor guts probably has the worst life out of any character.

Speaker 2: 14:39

If you've watched our last episode, yeah, I think guts has the worst life out of any character ever made. Um, how do you agree with that? Yeah, you know, the demons hold him down, he, they eat his arm and griffith decides to have his way with his woman, casca, in front of him. That's terrible, yeah, it's horrible. And, um, you know anyone that could do that to to strangers is a is a maniac. But to your own, you know your beloved soldiers that have dedicated their lives to you and and your best friend, because they were best friends. Whatever you want to say, he did takes number one.

Speaker 1: 15:26

I'm sorry, no one can defeat that. So I have a couple of hot takes about griffith um careful here, keeping keeping in the context that I don't know anything about the manga, you know yes, all of my knowledge is from all of my knowledge is from the anime. Uh, first thing, you know, I've heard that argument before, where griffith was a halfway decent person up until the point that you know guts left, and I think that's incorrect. I think griffith was always a terrible person.

Speaker 1: 15:55

Um, he was a manipulative bastard and you know, he had a game plan he had a game plan and guts broke his game plan and you know so well he's not owned anymore, right?

Speaker 2: 16:11

so guts thought they were equal. And griffith's, like you've never been equal to me, right and? That's exactly yeah, I mean. It spun his head. What do you mean? You beat me. I'm better than you. How can you?

Speaker 1: 16:20

beat me. But so, yeah, I I don't think griffith ever was a good person, you know, I think I think he's probably some sort of sociopath. Um, actually, you know what? No, I gotta say it's psychopath. He couldn't have been a sociopath, um, he had to. He was a psychopath from a child. You know which that happens, it can happen. Anyways, uh, there was something wrong with that dude. He was broken on the inside. And you know, the thing with guts leaving just brought it to the surface. The second hot take it there is I don't think griffith really gave a shit about anybody. He was in love with Guts and he wanted what he wanted. And the aftermath of that whole scene with the Eclipse.

Speaker 1: 17:06

Yeah, the aftermath of that whole scene with the Eclipse was just because he was jealous of Casca.

Speaker 2: 17:14

Because she could be with him and he loved her, and they saw each other as equal.

Speaker 2: 17:21

Absolutely, dude. I am on board and I'll tell you like berserk itself is. I will never forget that you're gonna crack out. It's my age a little bit, but we would. We would rent them from blockbuster, okay, and I remember that the second volume was there, but with the third and fourth, like it was, it took like a year to get all of them to watch because people would not return these fucking volumes, bro. I remember, yeah, you know, and I remember finally getting them, like me and my friend watched them all and that ending of the eclipse because that's the end of the freaking anime the original one was the eclipse thing and you are just watching this and I was probably too young to watch it and just being like holy shit, like they just do that and all the characters that you loved.

Speaker 1: 18:08

God completely blew me away, dude, yeah, some of this day, I will say you know the entire world, um the entire world, and for for berserk, there are no good people. Really, you love guts, but he's an anti-hero, oh he's, he's, he's. He's only marginally better than griffith, and that's because he makes slightly more humane choices sometimes now I will tell you not, as we've already said, spoilers, but in the manga.

Speaker 2: 18:40

that's the storyline of the manga after the golden age, art is, he gets a new group of comrades and he starts to actually care instead of I'm gonna fucking burn this world to the ground, because it's pretty much how he was, um. So it's really great, like I hope one day it finishes. I truly do. It's still not over, um, but yeah, let's move on because we're going to be talking about berserk for 27 minutes. So it's really great, like I hope one day it finishes. I truly do. It's still not over, but yeah, let's move on, cause we're going to be talking about berserk for 27 minutes Only. We got my, my next one, and there is no anime fan that can disagree with me. If you disagree with me, I don't even know what to tell you with this one. Shou Tucker from full metal alchemist.

Speaker 1: 19:18

That is the worst dude in the universe. No, I'm sorry, that's the end right there.

Speaker 2: 19:22

He is horrible and you know I'm a father, you know as you, so even without it, I hated him before. Then, as a dad, you're like how could you do this to your kid? No-transcript is so obsessed with his work as a scientist. How come a scientist? And the scary thing is, there are people like this that are, you know, so obsessed with their work that they will do anything to make it be successful and prove that they could be right, cause that was this whole thing. You can make a chimera, I know you can do it and then boom to your kid. You already did it to the wife, right?

Speaker 2: 20:09

right, yeah, exactly and then do it to your kid like bro and the dog, and the dog too, and the dog did you have to do? That I swear. In my nightmare I will hear edward and just fucking crash out dude no, I'm with you, I'm with you and I'm glad he gets scarred to fucking kill him scarred.

Speaker 2: 20:29

Kill him 10 times, but like the dude is just. I think what's so scary about that is that if you could make a chimera, somebody would probably do that. Some scientists somewhere would fucking try to do it dude.

Speaker 1: 20:43

No, no, absolutely. I mean they make movies about this, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 20:46

Yeah, somebody would do it.

Speaker 1: 20:48

This goes back to what I said before. You know, and I don't even remember when I said it, but it was recently. This goes back to what I said before. It's the end justifies the means for that type of person. Those can be some of the scariest SOBs on the planet, because the things that they can justify you know, just blow your mind dude, and Edward walks in and he's like I did it.

Speaker 2: 21:14

See, he's not even, doesn't even care. Like what are you doing, dude?

Speaker 1: 21:18

I challenge anybody to watch that scene and not cry, and you can fight me that damn, whole show has scenes like that, bro, there's so many, no, I agree.

Speaker 1: 21:28

That's the I agree. I agree with you the entire show, like if, if you're gonna talk about something that makes you feel good, don't ever watch full metal alchemist, because it's not gonna make you feel good at any point anywhere. Um, because even the light-hearted moments they're brought to you in between they're brought, they're bookended by the absolute dog shit getting. Either either the brothers get the dog shit kicked out of them or they lose back to back to back people, and then okay, let's have a little tiny masterpiece storytelling, dude, I agree, masterpiece storytelling.

Speaker 2: 22:03

You will watch that show and you will have a roller coaster up and down of emotions, because when the lows are low, they're low, but when they fucking get to those victories you are probably because there's so many lows, you are so hyped for them to actually succeed no-transcript about it. Yeah, I'm glad we talked about it well, it's very western setting, though, right, it's very european, but that's that's the problem with it, that's what makes it that's what makes it not high fantasy, right, because yeah, you've.

Speaker 1: 23:05

You've basically taken germany and just changed the country name. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it doesn't hit the marker, but yeah, I've been wanting to talk about full metal alchemist, but, um, fuck you out, tucker, because that dude's terrible dude evil just complete.

Speaker 2: 23:22

And, like you said, he thinks it was okay because he succeeded and he proved. Well, it could be done. Bro, who cares? Why do you even want those things? They don't they. They don't even live long like there's. No, there's no benefit of doing it. Besides, you could do it, that's the thing? Well, it's research money yeah, but it's like it's not even like you did it and now you can live a thousand years like you literally get nothing because they don't even live long no, besides your research grant, right, yeah, and that's the.

Speaker 1: 23:52

That's the whole thing. You gave up your kid for another year's research grant.

Speaker 2: 23:56

Dude, like what yeah, all right, you're tired, I'm out.

Speaker 1: 23:59

I'm so mad right now, all right so I mean so the rest of the list. I mean it doesn't even really compete, but I you have to bring up Death Note and Light Yagami, I think, just because if you want to look at characters that are evil I know that he's technically the main character of the show, but if you want to go evil list, you know characters in the history of anime Light yagami has got to be on that list sociopath or psychopath, sociopath.

Speaker 1: 24:30

Yeah, yeah, I it's. It's cool, calm and collected the entire way. There's not an emotional decision that gets made by that dude. That dude is the anime version of dexter dude.

Speaker 2: 24:41

He's even worse man, I don't know that's. He's the anime version of dexter. Yeah, that's a good analogy, I'm not comparing the Dexter. Yeah, that's a good analogy, I'm not comparing the badness of you guys.

Speaker 1: 24:49

That's a good analogy actually. Yeah, yeah, I can see it. But so it doesn't matter how he starts out, right? You know, he uses it to justify anything. Yeah, he uses it to justify anything Mass murder. Let's kill hundreds of people kill hundreds of people um to, it's basically feed his own god complex. Yeah, it doesn't matter if he. Yeah, it doesn't matter if he started out because he wanted to create a better world. You've got a. You've got a sociopath with a god complex and he uses that to justify whatever he wants.

Speaker 2: 25:18

Well, that's so good about him is you're right. He was trying to be like, oh, it's for only criminals, but the second that shit got too close I'll kill anybody.

Speaker 1: 25:26

I don't worry, that's the manipulation and the gaslighting, right, that that's where that comes in. That's, that's the you know, that's the other factors. Similar to griffith, you know, he's a very good manipulator, he's a very good gaslighter, he can you know um, but I mean, he manipulates everybody, including you know homegirl. What's her name? Misa, that poor girl.

Speaker 2: 25:47

Yeah dude, that was terrible, terrible.

Speaker 1: 25:49

But his family, you know the girl, everybody His dad, yeah. Right, right. And you know what else Again, we've already mentioned he went from, you know, being a guy who had you know a noble goal, to being basically a mass serial killer. But his egotism and his cruelty it just kind of makes him you're not any better than the people you're sending to your death, to their death.

Speaker 2: 26:19

You know, what strikes me on this story, though, while you're saying that, that I think about is the power part, because he was in school and he was in, you know, top of the class. He wasn't out there killing people, but the second that he got the ability to do it and get away with it, that absolute power corrupts absolutely thing went to overdrive because I doubted if he never got to death. No, he wouldn't have been a killer. He probably wouldn't have been a killer. Maybe he would wouldn't have been a killer. Maybe he would have been. Maybe he would have been.

Speaker 1: 26:49

So that's like they say, you know. Coming back to the real world for the second, that's like they talk about sociopaths leading businesses and they I forget the percentage. Yeah, I forget the percentage, but they say it's a large percentage of CEOs and business heads that are actually sociopaths. It doesn't make them killers, it makes them better at running their business, which you know. Let's not get into the ethics of how people run their businesses, but um cause that's yeah, but I think it's, that's a rabbit hole we're not going down.

Speaker 2: 27:18

No, I agree, but I think maybe that's in them, I mean, maybe it's in everybody, but I think maybe it's easier in them because they don't see you as a number or you know, whatever the right.

Speaker 1: 27:28

So basically my point is would light have been a killer if he didn't get the death note? Probably not, but would he have still been a sociopath? That was probably not a good. Not a good person, probably like almost guaranteed he still would have not been a good person.

Speaker 2: 27:44

He was just handed the vehicle to carry out his ridiculous plans, dude honestly, he probably would have been a cult leader because he loved being worshipped by as kira, so he probably would have ended up being a fucking cult leader. That probably had everyone drinking the, the juice, the killer juice, yeah and then you know.

Speaker 1: 28:03

So by the end. You know he's. It doesn't matter who he's killing. You know innocent people, the FBI, the cops, the detectives just because they're there, they're in his way, they want to catch him. You know, they want to catch the bad guy, who they view as the bad guy.

Speaker 2: 28:17

Well, he kind of, he kind of was bad.

Speaker 1: 28:21

Get me wrong. You know, I love death note, I love the dude. The character is amazing, amazing, but that that's, that's one of those characters that I would not wish upon the world. You know, if, like what? If anime was real? Just let not, let not light not light, you know.

Speaker 2: 28:37

Now I'll tell you this interesting enough, because that series premiered in short and jump, which that's usually, you know, short and jump stories, the hero, the underdog, you know, whatever friends that series is. So not that that, honestly, it's surprising and it's probably why it was so popular, because there was nothing like it. But surprising that the editors even gave it a go in shonen jump, because that is so not shonen shonen genre stuff and it it just lit. You know, we know in the west right sopranos breaking bad, we like the main character being a bad guy, right, like we're cool with that. You know that's not usually in shonen shonen type story. So it was definitely a risk for I think their audience to to do that. But it was a john, I mean, you saw a giant success, so paid off. Yeah, great, great series, though, absolutely and I agree.

Speaker 1: 29:31

Um, all right. So the final one on the list tonight is orochimaru. And you know, I just want to say coming in off the top. I don't care if the dude has a, has a redemption arc later on or not. That dude is fucking terrible. First of all snakes. Fuck that. So, like automatically, you know, come in and jump street. The first time you see fucking Orochimaru, you know he's got that fucking snake tongue and you're like that's the goddamn bad guy. That is the fucking bad guy. Cut off his tongue. That's the fucking bad guy. Cut off his tongue. That's the fucking guy. Kill him now, kill him, kill him, kill him, but anyways and burn him, yeah, right, and kill him and burn him and then kill him again.

Speaker 2: 30:11

Yeah, the fucking snakes no, he'll come back it doesn't matter, he'll just come back.

Speaker 1: 30:15

So right, but let's jump into the actual reasons. Why is it, you know, probably should be ranked as one of the worst villains in anime? First off, the human experimentation. You know what's her name? His, his own student. You know, I, she wasn't even his first, but he experimented on his students. He experimented on random innocent people, children. Uh, you know, too many people died because that dude wanted to pursue immortality. Um, just, his obsession with being immortal and know outliving everyone just becomes this thing where it again, the end justifies the means and he will justify anything, and he did, oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:56

He betrays everybody.

Speaker 1: 30:57

You know that scene where he kills Saratobi again Spoiler. But if you haven't seen that yet, get out of here. Right, get out of here. But if you haven't seen that episode, at this point, right, get out of here. You know he kills Saratobi and although not as heartbreaking as, like you know, full Metal Alchemist, it's still. You know that still tugs at you because you're like this is a dude, that was his teacher man, that was his teacher, that's basically your dad.

Speaker 2: 31:24

Basically Because Orochimaru's parents died in the war and that guy raised him.

Speaker 1: 31:28

Nobody's perfect, right, my father's not perfect, and you know again rabbit holes that were never going to go down. Nobody's part, nobody's perfect. But saratobi raised the guy. He tried to teach you everything he could. He treated you better than anybody else on that three-man squad.

Speaker 2: 31:46

He treated him better than Naruto. He treated him better than Naruto.

Speaker 1: 31:51

No, but he treated Orochimaru better than he treated Jiraiya. Yeah, you know, worse than nothing. And so you know Orochimaru had everything he wanted except the immortality and being hokage, and that dude took that power trip and that you know. Just that attitude or not attitude, but that clip on his shoulder about, you know, not getting those two things, and he just took that to the max bro.

Speaker 2: 32:19

He talked to my brother and he I remember he went on a rant one day about saratoga. He's like he's the real villain. He let all this happen, which accurately actually it's kind of accurate in a way because okay he left the roach maru.

Speaker 2: 32:33

He could have stopped him when he was young. He you know naruto's dad. All he said is hey, take care of my kid, man, I'm gonna sacrifice myself. Cool, I got you buddy. And then he put naruto on the edge of the village and everyone hates him and he's got a demon in him, you know.

Speaker 1: 32:48

And then he knew what was going down with the Uchiha clan, and it didn't stop that.

Speaker 2: 32:52

Well, that was. You know, I was going to add the Danza thing, which I'll do in a minute, but he knew about the Danza. So I'm telling you like I like old man Saratobi, but as a leader, dude's got questionable ass morals, man. Okay, questionable morals.

Speaker 1: 33:07

It did. At that point, you know, I don't know. I'm not making the case for why he made it. Actually, I guess I am making the case for why his bad decisions were justified. I'm not saying his bad decisions were justified, but you know like how, and I don't remember this, so maybe you can actually tell me how much did they dive into? Did he really have a choice in some of the things that he had to let happen?

Speaker 2: 33:34

So it would have prevented a worse thing. Yeah, yeah. So with Roach Amaro it was, it was only he's. I've raised him, he's my student. I can't kill him, which any anybody would be like that. You know some of them do take it, they will do it. You know they're ninja, but he just couldn't do it and Noritramar got away and then it was years and you know he disappeared and they couldn't find it. You know whatever. So you know you can give him a little bit of a pass on that.

Speaker 2: 34:02

Although there was plenty of signs, it wasn't just one time he saw him experimenting on people. Maybe it was the good old I can do the talk, no jutsu thing, and uh, you know talk or I should remember back to being good, but it never worked. So you know you can give a pass a little bit on that. Um, for the whole uchiha clan annihilation. He knew that donzo was planning on wanting to do something like that and he didn't take active steps to stop Donzo because Saratobi believed that the village needed a Hokage of the light in the daytime and a Hokage of the dark at night to do blackout missions and shit. That wouldn't be okay, which could be true or not. I mean that's a whole thing. But at the end of the day, he let Danzo kind of do his thing and I was going to bring Danzo into that conversation with Naruto Villains because that bro was literally you want to talk about. I'm doing this for the greater good.

Speaker 2: 35:01

He 100% believes that he is protecting the village by doing these underhanded shady things and, if you want to be real about it, it's kind of ridiculous because his meddling and his choices donzos directly had big fucking issues that came out later.

Speaker 2: 35:22

Um, to the point of all the dude wanted was a bunch of sharangan eyes and he was like we're gonna kill all of the whole uchiha clan to get their eyes. I'm gonna say it's because they're bad and they're plotting. They were plotting, that was happening. But to go to a kid, itachi, who's a badass ninja at like 12 he was already on to black ops and be like, hey, kid, here's the deal. I'm gonna kill your whole fucking clan, um, but what I will do is, if you do it instead of me, I'll let you let your brother sasuke stay alive, but if I do it, everyone's dying but you, and gave a child a choice and of course the kid's gonna do it, which we all know what happened. He killed his whole fucking clan in front of Sasuke, ruined his fucking life, and then what you find out later is Danzo went and collected all the fucking Sharan. God put him in his arm. So it was for power.

Speaker 1: 36:19

So you know how much of this story would have been prevented if Sarutby did?

Speaker 2: 36:26

something, um, I don't know. He got real lucky that naruto was a hero and didn't decide to burn the fucking village to the ground because they treated him like shit yeah, no kidding dude that kid talk about.

Speaker 1: 36:39

Talk about somebody that would have been absolutely justified and burning the village to the ground, and I mean just just think for a second right.

Speaker 2: 36:46

Naruto's dad and mom sacrificed their lives to save him as a baby. They seal the nine tails in the kid and they tell Sarutobi hey, take care of my son, make sure he knows who we are and please make the village treat him well. And he's like cool story, I will. And Naruto grows up alone in an apartment eating ramen every night where people throw donuts and shit at him because he's the demon kid. I mean, dude, dude, you're really breeding. I mean, if Naruto went bad, you would have had Sasuke and Naruto both want to burn this fucking village to the ground.

Speaker 1: 37:21

No, I agree. Whoever said you know sticks and stones may break your bones was a fucking liar, because you know words. Words hurt, words hurt, dude.

Speaker 2: 37:31

And I fucking tell beast yeah, yeah you know what, if I were Naruto?

Speaker 1: 37:35

I can't say I would have made any. You know, just put myself in that position If I were Naruto.

Speaker 2: 37:46

I would have burned everything the fuck down. Well, and how do you not tell him his dad was the fourth hokage he loved? Could you at least tell him that, right, and be like hey, just keep this a secret or something, but like anything well, okay, maybe you can justify not telling him that when naruto couldn't keep a secret shit I mean shit, but, but here's what's weird. Like everyone knows who, the fourth was you know what fair point.

Speaker 1: 38:06

everybody in the fucking village except everyone knows who the fourth was. You know what Fair point?

Speaker 2: 38:09

Everybody in the fucking village except the kids knew who his dad was. I mean, I don't know if they all knew if that was his dad, but they knew who the fourth was. How can you? He looks exactly like him. He looks exactly. Yeah. So that's that's. Yes, Orochimaru is a scumbag A hundred percent. Sorochimaru is a scumbag 100 and yeah, okay, he redeemed himself cool, whatever. But at the end of the day and for villains in naruto, they all have very good villains. A lot of them are very multi-dimensional villains. Um, I would say donzo is one of the worst, just because he truly does think that what he's doing is protecting his village and in a way, it probably is protecting the village in certain situations. But all of his choices caused real big problems later. So you really didn't protect the village. You protected it on Monday and then on Friday there was a giant thing because of what you did. You know what I mean. It's like you just kicked the can down the road and you can't run it like that.

Speaker 1: 39:08

You can't do black ops shit all the time and kill world leaders behind the scenes yeah yeah, I agree, I don't know, so yeah so the tldr of this is we've got three extra bonus villains out of the the naruto series and basically everybody, everybody sucks. All the old men in Naruto suck, except Jiraiya.

Speaker 2: 39:33

Yeah, except for.

Speaker 1: 39:34

Kakashi, kakashi's pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 39:35

He's not old. Oh yeah, he's just got white hair. Yeah, oh no, jiraiya's old, jiraiya's cool as shit.

Speaker 1: 39:44

Okay, alright, jiraiya is cool.

Speaker 2: 39:46

Yeah, that's what I just said. I said, except Jiraiya's old Jiraiya's cool as shit. Okay, all right, jiraiya is cool.

Speaker 1: 39:48

Although wait he always had white hair, though, I said, except Jiraiya. Everybody, all the old men suck, except Jiraiya. Yeah, you're probably right.

Speaker 2: 39:55

Yeah, yeah, all right. So tell me, hot take dub or sub.

Speaker 1: 39:59

It depends and I know that's a terrible hot take, subtitled for most things, except when I know who the english voice actors are. Um, and they're from special specific shows, like anything with travis willingham as a as the voice actor. I'm gonna listen to it. You're gonna do it well, think about it.

Speaker 2: 40:19

Dub now it's way better than when we grew up. Dub when we grew up absolutely was horrible. I will say I'm usually a sub snob because I'm just elitist like that. But the one series that if you're ever going to watch it, watch it dubbed, not subbed is helsing ultimate, because everybody in helsing ultimate has british accents because it's in london and stuff and the dub does have all that. The subbed obviously doesn't. So it really sells it because everybody's got that accent in that show and it's just.

Speaker 1: 40:52

I think I watched it subbed, but I'll check it out dubbed it's good man and Alucard is Itachi's voice, so Itachi's dubbed voice is great. Okay.

Speaker 2: 41:00

Hell yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:01

Well, I think we're approaching time. So you know, thanks for jumping into the realm with us today. Be sure to follow us on wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to follow Realm Jumpers. Don't forget to share your thoughts, theories and favorite moments with us.

Speaker 2: 41:19

Until next time, stay, epic, and keep exploring the worlds you love. Leave us a review on your podcast platform. If you can't think of anything nice to say just us about your favorite anime. See you in the next round later. Thank you.