Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to Realm Jumpers. I'm Andrew and this is my co-host, jordan.

Speaker 2: 0:09

Hey everyone. We're here to dive into the worlds of fantasy and anime, bringing you epic stories and unforgettable adventures.

Speaker 1: 0:16

We'll be talking world building, unforgettable villains and everything that makes these genres legendary. So let's jump into the realm. Welcome to episode five. Whoa, hold up five. Yeah, man, episode five, which I guess is technically episode six, because you know, we did the nerdy thing and had a uh, episode zero, oh, episode zero yeah the backstory.

Speaker 2: 0:43

So zero, oh, episode zero, yeah the backstory. So we gotta kind of decide, and I think it sounds cool we should call our listeners jumpers jump. I like it all right. So jumpers, check this out. Five episodes, well, six episodes. We gotta do a round of applause because my man started writing, writing his novel. Knock it off, come on, you started it at least, right, I mean yeah I wrote some words.

Speaker 1: 1:10

There were some words written there were some words.

Speaker 2: 1:13

I may have looked at the words and the words made sense. So you're doing good, you're doing good so far.

Speaker 1: 1:18

I mean, the alphabet makes sense, so that's not a kind of. It's not a hard bar to meet. Cat in the hat makes sense. I can rhyme words.

Speaker 2: 1:27

Well, I mean, hey, I was liking where you were, what you're putting down on that, so good job so far.

Speaker 1: 1:33

No in. In all truth, I uh, I really liked it as well. I had written um, I think I said this, but I wrote a good chunk of that prologue previously, probably four months ago, and then I just kind of walked away from it for a bit, got busy you know life, dealing with other stuff, and then you know you've been bugging me. So I was like, let me just sit down and look at this thing. So I opened it up and I'm like, well, let me change this word, let me change a few things here. I don't like the way that sounds. Fix that. Ooh, I love that. What was I doing? That's cool. Like where was I going? Oh, yeah, yeah. So then I was like, oh, no, yeah, I do like this.

Speaker 2: 2:16

So, look, I mean this wasn't planned, but this episode is literally titled Novel vs Manga. So, like you, it kind of kind of fits man. Like, honestly, in a weird way, it's super weird that you started doing it.

Speaker 1: 2:31

Finally, yeah, no, I mean, I guess it does like it does fit um, so we're gonna hash it out. You know what's better novel or uh, or manga oh yeah, we're not going series we're not going series specific. This is is just going to be an ultimate showdown. An ultimate showdown.

Speaker 2: 2:50

I'm going to win you probably will, but I'm going to take the weird I mean as the so far only author with books out. You'd think I would have chosen the novel, but I'm going to go for the manga. So it's going to be weird because I probably should do the other one. But yeah, I'm just, I'm a manga maniac, all right, but before we jump into that, let's do our realm rumors. We got some pretty interesting ones here today.

Speaker 1: 3:12

Yeah, what do you got for me this week?

Speaker 2: 3:14

Yeah, man. So the first one's pretty heavy. I don't know how much you follow it. I'm sure you've seen a in different reports and social media. But the anime industry in Japan itself is like, obviously super hard.

Speaker 2: 3:27

They work their asses off and there's been a lot of talk about what kind of conditions is their actual working environment for a lot of these big name studios. Mappa is a really big one where they kind of got into some controversy. You know people not really going home working crazy hours as much as I love MAPPA and everything you know people not really going home working crazy hours um, as much as I love mappa and everything you know their animation is great and all the action's solid, but like they take on a lot of projects. So you know you got people like not able to go home. You know, to meet deadlines it's getting a little sketchy.

Speaker 2: 4:00

So there's been so much talk of this and and I don't know if this is more the west being more vocal, which is probably what it is, because we always believe people should be able to still have a life and also work. Japan likes to just work, work, work. Now in Japan the actual federal investigation is happening into what are these working conditions, like their ftc, and stuff is like is there unfair practices happening? You know like it's getting pretty serious over there because I think, you know, honestly, maybe the west is to blame because the demand is so much more now because we, you know, consume any like, like maniacs as well. But uh, yeah, there's a, there's a lot of talk and hopefully they'll be able to I don't know maybe rein in some of this stuff. You know, gaming deadlines are similar, right, there's a lot of that talk in gaming, in the game world.

Speaker 1: 4:53

So first, I have two points. Um, so you're telling me that basically, death march to the parallel world rhapsody is this is real life, death march to the parallel world rhapsody?

Speaker 2: 5:07

a hundred percent. And also zombie 100. Okay, zombie 100 because remember he was a. He was a working in a studio and almost died.

Speaker 1: 5:15

Yeah so, uh, further to point one there, I do think it's a cultural thing. Um, because it's mentioned in several light novels as a cultural thing and not a standard set forth by the job market. The employer doesn't say, no, you've got to stay here. I think it's 100% a cultural thing, at least that's from my understanding of some of the light novels I've read. I think it's worse, buddy.

Speaker 2: 5:46

I think it's gotten worse. I think it was originally that and that's fine. But I think the demand, like what we were saying in the other episode, how so many anime are coming out every year it's just so many of them that the amount of workload that it takes is probably close to I don't want to say impossible, but maybe close with the timelines that they're releasing them in, you know type stuff. I think that's a big part, I will say, and it's kind of funny because as much as I love Jujutsu Kaisen, the last season was great, but there's a big battle scene in it when Sukuna was fighting and stuff. The one that aired was different than the one in the blu-ray. It's like they rushed it to get it out and it was great and amazing animation, but the blu-ray one, because they like went ahead and finished, it was like way better.

Speaker 1: 6:36

So I guess there is a little bit of that rush to deadline stuff going on so the point too that I was going to bring up was um, I think to to your point. What you said is just kind of the way the world is now. Is it the West's fault? You know partially, but also not partially. You know, the the rise of COVID and making a One hundred percent remote workforce. I don't know how far across the world that went, you know, I don't know how far that spread into that went. You know, I don't know how far that spread into Asia. But that certainly, you know, would bring to light a lot of situations where employees are doing things they shouldn't, you know, do for their own, for their own mental health and wellbeing. And I'm sure you know, because in any society there's always going to be people that take advantage of other people. So I'm absolutely sure you're right that there are some studios that took advantage of some of their workers. You know, get it done mentality, that's human nature, dude, oh yeah absolutely.

Speaker 2: 7:37

I mean I wonder, like legal wise, what you know labor laws they have. But obviously it must be man, man, it must be a big deal because they're investigating it. So I guess there was some credible whatever's going on. So it's it'll be. Of course we want anime all the time, you know it's fine and we want it as much as possible. But if people are overworking themselves to the point of like exhaustion, I mean you know mangakas, man, they get sick all the time from overworking, they gotta take breaks like constantly. So that work ethic thing, maybe it is probably part of the culture. But you know you gotta be healthy too, you don't want to disappear. All right, a little bit lighter note on the some cool little realm rumors here. So have, I don't know if we talked about before, but do you watch dr stone at all?

Speaker 1: 8:24

um, I'm going to get into it. It's on my list, uh okay, but as I as I was telling you uh, I restarted black coat, black clover, because you said I need to finish it, so I restarted black clover. Um, so, dr stone will. It's on the list after that. Okay, cool cool.

Speaker 2: 8:44

So it's airing the final season right now. Anime-wise, the manga's over. But what's cool about this? I remember here is the creator Boichi. They're making another series because Dr Stone ended, I think, a couple years ago. So their new series is going to be a Western-themed, like, I guess, guess cowboy western type thing called marshall king. There's not much info about it, but the art style is so unique in dr stone and the storytelling, uh, you know, everyone's pretty excited to see where this is going to go.

Speaker 2: 9:17

They did release the little, you know couple sentence synopsis real quick, I'll read it. I mean, why not? So the storyline is a man claiming to be the son of a notorious villain, one who committed countless atrocities, has appeared. He says he killed his father and crossed the desert with his corpse. A new era western story, serialized every other friday. So it could be kind of cool. Man, it sounds very interesting.

Speaker 2: 9:42

Um, cool thing about this creator is they're actually south korean and they made the jump to, uh, you know, japanese manga. Their original series sun can rock. It's like a fighting type series, like gang fighting type stuff, which is really the art's insane. I used to read it back in the day. And then they, they did dr stone, which was a hit. The anime is, you know, very popular and then now they're going to come out with Marshall King, so we'll see. Hopefully it'll be just as good. I don't know. It's like a Western, so you don't see many of those Trigon's, the only one I can think of when I think of anime Westerns. You know, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 10:18

All right, so shall we jump into the great debate of the century.

Speaker 2: 10:25

Yes, of the great debate of the century.

Speaker 1: 10:26

Yes, let's, uh, let's go, man, you're gonna have to go first, though, on this one no, I think this is just gonna be. Uh, I mean, we're not doing this debate style, you know. You, we're just gonna chat. All right, that wasn't in the notes. We're just gonna argue, we're just gonna argue.

Speaker 2: 10:36

Yeah, we're just gonna argue.

Speaker 1: 10:37

But I will start first. If that's what you would prefer, let's do it all right, so first. So first, novel versus manga which one are we going to pick? Obviously, I think everybody knows I will be arguing the point, for novels are better. You know, pro novel here. It's always going to provide deeper world building, better internal monologues and better descriptions of everything that's happening, not just the action scenes. It's going to describe everything that's happening, not just the action scenes. It's going to describe everything that's happening Like the outside character stuff, every little world building detail, every single thought Well, obviously not every single thought that the character is having. But that's where you get your internal monologues from, and manga can't do that.

Speaker 2: 11:23

So here's the thing, agreed, although they can do a little bit of thinking panels. So that is a thing that you can do, but the thing for me that beats out and I love novels, don't get me wrong, of course, nothing can ever beat the description nature of it, but there's a version of manga that there's a hype level. So what I'm using as an example is the last one that had the biggest hype was Jujutsu Kaisen. So, as it's coming out every week and you're getting these dynamic action battles and what's going to happen next, their community around talking about each chapter, what's going to happen next? What does this character do?

Speaker 2: 12:01

There was this community aspect built around it. That novels will never have that week to week thing because they come out in full, which is fine. That's the, that's the medium. But there's something really fun and interesting and I honestly, even though social media has been out for a long time you know TikTok, Instagram reels there's whole communities where they're literally just breaking down the chapters in depth. People are commenting stuff, there's discussions going on and there's something about being a part of that journey. It's like you're on it with the creator, with this whole fan base, week to week to week to week and I think that that just it's special man. It's something crazy about it that makes you really tied into the story. It's special man, it's something crazy about it that makes you really tied into the story. And it's one of my favorite things literally about reading these every week is keeping it up to them every week. Is you get drawn into this whole discussion around? Is this what the character meant? Is it you know, whatever, whatever's going on and that hype, man, it builds.

Speaker 1: 13:04

I mean, I definitely see that. But what about? Isn't Japan based on for light novels? Doesn't Japan have a bunch of publishing sites where authors start publishing their weekly chapters of the novel weekly? So it's a similar thing you read weekly.

Speaker 2: 13:23

Have you done that?

Speaker 1: 13:24

before, obviously not for Japanese, but what I? Do for some american what I do for some american writers that I follow um, I subscribe to their patreons and I get a chapter a day for some of these writers that I can go that's pretty cool their newest chapter every morning and then jump in the comments and hang out with everybody and type type it up.

Speaker 2: 13:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's dope. I think that's a cool way to do. You know chapters and stuff.

Speaker 2: 13:51

I don't know if I would do it that way as a writer I definitely wouldn't, yeah, but I mean, some people do, it's cool, but I don't know, I don't see the videos being broken down. Oh, this chapter, but then again, it's right, but the art, you know. So another part is the art. When you have some stunning art I'm going to use one of your favorite series here, berserk you look at some of these art panels and you're like this is a masterpiece, this is literally. And then you even get lost in the little details because you're you want to like absorb this art masterpiece thing going on. And not every manga has art, that's not like that, but the ones when they do hit it that way, it does evoke more emotion and more stuff than just reading the reading, the dialogue or read or reading a page of a book. I mean, I don't know man it, it draws you into that I have to disagree with you.

Speaker 1: 14:45

I I don't like I don't know. I am always going to be more moved by an internal dialogue in a situation that you just described. I'm always going to be more moved by the internal dialogue in the novel than I am in the couple of frames that you're going to get with that illustrated and the limited text.

Speaker 1: 15:03

I'm always going to be more moved by the light novel like I don't know you know that I I see your point, and 100 I think a story like fairy tale, um, that can only be told through manga and anime, oh yeah I don't see it would be a terrible. It'd be a terrible book, I. I do feel like that would be a terrible novel of any form, you know, but that's not. Most stories, most of the anime we watch, could be told in a light novel, and most of them are. It's just that they're not available for English readers. A lot of them.

Speaker 2: 15:39

Which is crazy, because you would think that would be a priority to get those translate. Maybe it's just that there's not as much of an audience built, a built-in audience, novel-wise, for light novel slash anime type stories as there is like regular.

Speaker 1: 15:53

So, from what I understand, it just takes the time to get the correct English translation, because it's not a matter of just translating it directly into English. Because if that was the case and I've seen some of these fan translations that go to the Japanese websites and they copy, you know, the the updated story information and then translate it and post it and I'm like this is terrible, but you can't understand half of it. Yeah, no you can't.

Speaker 1: 16:19

And it's garbled mess. You might read a character name here and there and then you know there's gonna be some ew stuff and it's like I I don't know what happened. Here.

Speaker 2: 16:29

You're like I'm out, I don't know what's going on right, yeah, he said some stuff, and then somebody got punched and you're like, okay, I don't know, man, I think just the art aspect to me, so I will give. I actually have a question for you because I haven't really read light novels but I've read rather ones. But so if it's a light novel, that's probably an anime or going to be or whatever in the cover. Does it always have the main characters on the covers or is it sometimes random characters, like when you see it in your mind and then they do animate it? Is there a time you're like, oh, that's not what I thought it looked?

Speaker 1: 17:02

like.

Speaker 1: 17:03

So it depends on the light novel solo has solo leveling has zero um, has zero animation at all, like there are no drawings. Sorry for everybody that's listening. I've got a frog in my throat because you know it's winter time. One second he's been fighting it. So solo leveling has got no images, no drawings, no renderings, nothing, not in any of the pages, not on the front cover, not on the back cover. It's nowhere to be found.

Speaker 1: 17:38

Um, but then you're gonna have novels like um jobless reincarnation, jobless reincarnation. Typically, you know, obviously, the first book is always going to be the main character and then you know, if the character is going to meet somebody new in the next novel, they'll probably be on them, on the, on the cover, with the main character, or some novels, you know, just do, whatever new flavor of female is introduced in the next novel, she will be on the main. You know the main cover. And then, once you, once you open up the cover, there's going to be three to five images of like scenes throughout the scenes, throughout the, the novel, and they're going to be illustrated manga style, but only three to five of them so like solo 11 is a great, great point and there's no art.

Speaker 2: 18:27

So when you first saw um jinwoo or whatever, what were you? Like, oh, that makes sense. Like, oh, I didn't think he looked that way in my mind. Was there, uh, was there that type of situation and with you?

Speaker 1: 18:38

when you looked, I am so glad you brought this point up, because it's one of the things that I wanted to argue for a point for novels. Okay, so have you, and I'll answer your question in a second. But I got to round about it. I kind of asked this question Okay, have you ever read anything and I know you don't read a ton but have you ever read anything and you imagined a character or a scene or a setting to be a certain way in your mind? And then you see it on film or you see it on television and you're like that's not what it fucking looks like.

Speaker 2: 19:11

Oh yeah, and it breaks. It breaks your experience.

Speaker 1: 19:14

So that, right there, 100. That's why a novel is always going to be better, because it leaves some things open to your brain's interpretation. Right, there is no one perfect way. Um, that jimu looks and I know that would be blasphemous to everybody that read the the manhwa but the fact is the way writers write. There is no 100 specific way that everything gets described. There are always going to be things that are left up to the reader's imagination, because the reader's imagination does a better job of telling the story with some limited data.

Speaker 1: 19:51

You give it some data and then you let your brain tell the story and that's why you have all of these different fan groups all over the internet for some of these stories. Like, I don't know, pick a book, just pick any book, you know, and you're going to have fan theories all over the place that say, no, it's supposed to be this like Game of Thrones. Right the ending, how is it supposed to end? You know there's 25 different theories out there and they could all be right, they could all be wrong, they could all have one point right, one point wrong, you don't know, because there are so many things left up to the interpretation. That's the author's greatest gift is saying I'm going to write some beautiful words, it's all going to look good, I'm going to give you some descriptions and then I'm going to trick you into.

Speaker 1: 20:34

I'm going to trick you into figuring out your own story that you have just told yourself, and I'm still going to charge you for it.

Speaker 2: 20:41

Oh, absolutely, no, absolutely. And you know that part. You know that you're the writer right Like you have to.

Speaker 1: 20:46

You have to visualize that. You know that that's the, that's what sells you, that's what sells your book.

Speaker 2: 20:51

Well, yeah, like for me, when I'm writing a character, I might have a version in my own mind of what I think it looks like and I try to explain that in the book and then. But anyone who reads that's going to have their own version. So that's so. Here's the thing. And to kind of turn that around on you a little bit, that disappointment that you're talking about, which we've all felt, because everyone has read something somewhere at some point in time, whether it's a novel, and you watch something you're like oh, I don't, that didn't look right to me and it just puts you in a. You're like, okay, whatever. But you're also like, I don't really like that. You know, depending on how it's casted, if it's a show or a movie, you will never have that with manga turning into anime or anything else, because it's drawn, we know what it looks like.

Speaker 2: 21:34

Now, if the art sucks because they you know it's paid some PowerPoint anime studio to do it Like, apparently I guess the last blue lock season, there's this, this kind of movement all the time. I didn't watch blue lock, but I saw the clip. I've seen that kind of stuff. Obviously people get mad, but the character looks the way that it looks in the manga because it was already drawn. And now. Now I will say there has been times where and and I personally being a monwa fan, I don't understand. It seems like when they color manga covers, they do this weird like color pencil, pastel colors, all the time. They don't color it like an anime. I don't know if you ever noticed that a lot of times and you're like, why do they color it like that? There's been a lot where they've done color here and I'm like that's not what I thought it was. You know the reason, right?

Speaker 1: 22:25

no, I have no idea I don't know, because color theory looks different on paper than it does on screen. Yeah, but so the art style has to change.

Speaker 2: 22:35

I mean I get the art style, but even just the color itself, like I've seen certain characters with purple hair and then it ends up coming out and they got red hair, like completely different.

Speaker 1: 22:45

Okay, so that just comes down to an artist not paying attention to the IP, you know the intellectual property You're not paying attention to the source. You know the intellectual you're not. You're not paying, you're not paying attention to the source. Ip, um, I think for that. But also they might draw a scene and put the original hair color in there and go that looks like crap, that's washed out this this character looks washed out this entire series.

Speaker 1: 23:05

We got to do something, and one of the easy ways to do that is to change hair colors. I also heard something else that, um, this, this was just random, you know chats like in reddit, I think, and they were like, well, the reason, everybody's hair color is different, so you can tell them apart, and I'm like I mean, you can tell people apart. I don't think that's really necessary, but hey, maybe that is a thing I don't know, it could be.

Speaker 2: 23:27

It could be and I'll say now the only thing I will say about the manga to anime stuff when you're adapting scene, when they're adapting scene, if it's not adapted in the way that it's presented in the manga, because they don't have the budget, maybe a lot of times, then you get that whole similar what you're saying, like oh man, they messed this up. You know that kind of stuff, similar to what you're saying like oh man, they messed this up.

Speaker 1: 23:52

You know that kind of stuff. So let me ask you then how? How do you think I know, I know we've talked about it, we did a full episode on it um, solo leveling. You think solo leveling is doing 100, pretty, pretty close to authentic for what the for the manhwa was?

Speaker 2: 24:06

yeah, because there's scenes that are literally I mean, you can look them up and seeing them a lot lately where it's side by side panel versus anime screen capture and it's, if not the exact same, it is very close. Now, of course, the manga is going to have sometimes cooler. You know you can put more detail, things like that, but you know.

Speaker 1: 24:28

The characters all look the same.

Speaker 2: 24:30

Yeah, man, they look really close like and even some of the like the big. When you read it you're like, oh shit, that was cool. Yeah, they're doing that. And they got the music dialed in. Man, the music's hitting like. They're doing a good job, I mean sure no doubt the show's doing a great job.

Speaker 1: 24:49

I just bring that point up because so for solo leveling, for having read the light novels, they don't hit all the character descriptions and they don't do the things the way that I feel like they should have been done and that kind of breaks the reality for it on me a few times in the show where I'm like what, what, what's going on here?

Speaker 1: 25:10

just because that character doesn't look the the way I imagine them to be based off of the description of the novel and it kind of breaks that. It breaks that experience. Yeah, you didn't read it.

Speaker 2: 25:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay so it's different because, yeah, you, you did have that. So, yeah, I never I read it, I just read the monifer. So the character design is read right right off the page. So it's pretty close. Um, I don't really know. I should probably look this up, I guess, but I don't know what the story the difference was between.

Speaker 2: 25:39

I'm assuming someone, I guess the author, made a deal with an artist or what a studio I guess, to draw it from the book. I'm assuming they still had oversight authority right On, like how it was drawn out. I would assume. Yeah, I know, I don't know. I should look at it. I'm sure they did, whoever it is.

Speaker 2: 26:01

But yeah, that's just my biggest. You don't have as many let down moments of that's not drawn right, because it's literally drawn from the scene itself, which is great, I get that. And then the other thing, like I said, the hype there's. There's this high and if you haven't, and there's actually a whole thing right now, because you just guys and ended and people can hate the ending, whatever, but there's nothing right now coming out weekly that is hitting the level of hype that, uh, that justiu-jitsu kaisen hit. I don't know what was about. I love that story and everything. Gojo is the man, but something about that story just like clicked with like a large audience and it's over and we're all just like you know, chainsaw man's cool, but it's just not the same. There's nothing, really.

Speaker 1: 26:48

So you read the manga. You read the manga for oh yeah, yeah, I can't.

Speaker 2: 26:52

The next season is gonna be at all dude. When there's like some fights that happen that you're like on the edge of your seat, dude, like week to week to week. It felt like that. So I don't know how. I mean, the anime is gonna be amazing when it gets to that part, but you know it's going to be cool. I mean, I, I was in that, I was like I was watching, I'd read dude. I would read it on like thursday and then thursday night or when I had a break at work, I'd go and look at a few tiktoks of people who break down the chapter, who talk about and I already read it like I was in man. I was involved and making comments and the people theorizing this and that. So it was.

Speaker 1: 27:34

That part was really fun for me, yeah all right, so I know you have berserk back there, but how do you, how do you typically, how do you typically consume manga? Do you read it online?

Speaker 2: 27:45

yeah, yeah. I mean, if I had the money I'd just just buy them. But who's got the money to buy?

Speaker 1: 27:51

those things constantly. That would be my last, final, biggest gripe about novels being better. They're more portable, you can take them everywhere. I read them on my phone and I don't have to worry about being able to like zoom in to look at images, because I'm I can see that I've got four or 500 books on my phone and I have a few. I have a few, um, manga, um, mostly fairytale, because that's one of the mangas that I did read and I don don't I don't read them on my phone and it's like now I gotta go bust out my tablet and then even then sometimes I'm like I would rather just read this on a bigger screen, whereas you know, a novel.

Speaker 1: 28:34

It's like I just hold up my phone, put it in front of my face and just start reading.

Speaker 2: 28:39

Yeah, there was a few times you're like zooming in because you're like you really want I mean like you can read it but like you want to really, then you get lost in frame too.

Speaker 1: 28:45

It's like when you zoom? In and try to zoom back out. You're lost in the frame.

Speaker 2: 28:48

You're like I don't know where I was at um, oh yeah, I'm lost shit no, ideally like reading it on like a laptop or something would be the best, but I'd be dude. There be times I wake up and I'm just like, let me just see if it's out and I would check. And this is how hyped, like in, I was the official short and jump stuff comes out sunday okay, like translated, but thursday is the unofficial fan ones and they're always pretty good. So I'd fucking read on thursday. I'm reading thursday, I'll read again on sunday, like I was all in on it and there's something about the hype man, it was like it was really fun.

Speaker 2: 29:24

It's sad because there's nothing really there right now. I mean, there's a really cool series that it's great. It's a, it's like a sword series. It's really. It's really good. But I don't know if and it is getting an anime. I think it's kakabuchi, I don't know the name, I'm gonna fuck it up, I don't know how to say it, but uh, there's gonna be anime, so it'll probably get really popular. You're going to love it when it comes out because it's really good. But there's not the hype built into the weekly releases, you know right now.

Speaker 1: 29:53

Well, that was really my last big major point and obviously, you know, for everybody that's listening, I'm sure you guys can tell we're having a lot of fun with this discussion and it really is. Just, it's not even a mild argument, because we both see the value of you know each, each, each type of art. You know, jordan writes, both for God's sake, and and I do read some manga. It's just, you know, I'm always going to argue for the novel point.

Speaker 2: 30:22

Well, you'll never for the novel point.

Speaker 1: 30:27

Well, you'll never, you'll never lose that argument because of the whole ability to imagine.

Speaker 2: 30:31

Yeah, imagination is king man and and we've talked about soul leveling like he's thinking about all this stuff during a scene and that's not even shown at all. So you're missing all the context that he's going through in his mind. You know they don't really show you that. So it's definitely worth it to. Uh, no, reading. Reading novels are awesome. I just I'm a suck. I mean y'all can't see it. Maybe we'll do a tour one day of the uh, the studio here, but I haven't literally have a wall across from me of all manga panels.

Speaker 1: 31:02

I'm staring at it right now, arguing with you about artwork. Well, it's pretty dope y'all.

Speaker 2: 31:03

I'm staring at it right now, arguing with you about artwork it's dope I like yeah, I like it. It's fun, dude, it's my favorite spot. I'm glad we're recording it here now.

Speaker 1: 31:13

It's awesome well, I yeah, I am also glad you're recording in there. Um, I think all of our you know future listeners because you know we're posting this from the future. I think all of our listeners should chime in on. You know their argument. What's their favorite art form there is it? Are you the uh, are you the novel person or are you manga? All the way, I think everyone should let us know yeah, these jumpers really gotta get in there it's yeah commenting get a flame.

Speaker 2: 31:42

We're going in the comments. We don't care, get good, that's that that's fine, just keep it.

Speaker 1: 31:45

Figure it out.

Speaker 2: 31:46

Keep it nice, Whatever. All right, bro. So you kind of we got to do a hot take. Man, we have to do a hot take.

Speaker 1: 31:54

It started out as a joke and now it's like a thing.

Speaker 2: 31:59

Like it's a and I'm gonna give you all the props to mine, because I couldn't remember the name and you're over here's like encyclopedia man, he figured it out, so mine is the kingdom of ruin anime hold on, we didn't ask the question, oh shoot, so the hot worst what is the?

Speaker 1: 32:17

worst anime you've ever seen worse.

Speaker 2: 32:20

Yes, kingdom of ruin anime, and you've watched the first episode, so you agree with me it starts four oh, okay, I watched more, but yeah, it started really great man, revenge, bloody action. There's some magic. The kid's got a freaking magical quill pen that he can write reality. I'm like, this is me.

Speaker 1: 32:41

I love this and that's like your recreators thing that you were talking about. I was like this is dope.

Speaker 2: 32:47

And then, literally, the second episode. It got a little like okay and I think I've, literally I think I watched past four Cause I was like it has to get better, you can't start so strong. And okay, you stumbled a little bit but we're going gonna close it out and I think I made it to like eight and I'm like this is the biggest disappointment. The animation got shitty. I guess they lost budget. I don't know what happened. That series fell apart at the seams man.

Speaker 1: 33:16

It's terrible terrible, I agree. I stopped watching it. Episode four, uh, I couldn't come back to it, but we, we tip.

Speaker 1: 33:24

We don't agree on this one in this instance. My worst anime I've ever seen would be redo of healer. I watched one episode and decided this is the hottest garbage trash I've ever seen. I'm not sure how it made it into production. I am fairly certain it's um hentai, that they just scrubbed some of the scenes out of and then published it live, and I was like no, I don't usually get that disgusted, and here's the thing here's what this went up, because I'm trying, I feel like I remember.

Speaker 2: 33:54

Is it the girl with the pink hair?

Speaker 1: 33:57

yeah, she's like a princess or something, I don't know, dude I'm not even kidding you. One episode disgusted me pretty bad. So here's the thing. We hit a point last year, in the last several years that you know there was this thing where let's make healers like kind of awesome, and I was like I'm about that, you know, I like, I like a good healer story, I mean because let's explore that, because everybody normally wants to either talk about the op magician or the op you know, knight that shows up and, uh, just mercs everybody.

Speaker 1: 34:22

So I was, I was about. I was like all right, let's get some OP healer action and see what kind of stories can be created. And there's some good light novels. The Great Cleric is a great light novel. The anime was crap, but that's not even on my worst list. This redo a healer stuff, though, man, I don't know dude.

Speaker 2: 34:39

I don't know this one. So what happened?

Speaker 1: 34:49

I don't remember any of that. What so is it just discussed fan service. He wasn't re dude.

Speaker 1: 34:51

I don't even want to call it fan service, I don't know what to call it. I wasn't joking when I said hentai, like that's. So this healer, you know, he awakens um as a healer and he comes to find out that, you know, healers are these super valuable people, but not because people think they're awesome, they're just super valuable for their healing powers. And then he gets just abused, and I mean abused in every sense of the word. Abused the main character you're talking about yeah, the main character, and it's bad.

Speaker 2: 35:19

So I'm looking at the image search and I don't like what I'm seeing.

Speaker 1: 35:22

Yeah, well, and it gets worse. So I told you, I told you guys, I only watched one episode and it it to me. I was like this is not something I'm ever gonna finish, but I wanted to know how it like even got into production in the first place. So of course I did, you know, I did the internet deep dive and found out some of the story points on reddit like what, um, what actually happens in that story, bro? He gets worse, like he gets full revenge on these people, which you're like, yay, revenge, but it's he's as bad or worse than they are. Wow, so they went full-on, yeah, and and apparently he gets revenge on everybody. That's all cool and everything, but it's not because it's bad, like you're just as bad. I don't know that it was major, just fan service hentai, like that's the whole point of the show what did it?

Speaker 2: 36:10

was it crunchyroll? Where did it? Air h dive dude, I do not even remember. Oh man, I've, yeah, dude, I don't remember this one man I think it was.

Speaker 2: 36:19

I think this was two or three years ago, maybe that it came out yeah, I just was googling it while you're talking and yeah, I don't even think I don't know if I've even seen it. I don't it's bad. Isn't there a really good healer series? Though? What there's a good one now? Right, because we were talking about it. It made me think I swear there was one that blew up.

Speaker 1: 36:39

That was popular well, see, I don't know, the great cleric anime was not, it was okay. Um, it's not amazing, but it was okay. The light novels are pretty good. I like the light novels um, and then let's see what else. I yeah, there was one recently, this past year, and I'm trying to remember what it was called. It's literally the healer just goes around learning to punch people and because he can heal himself, he just becomes this massively strong dude that's got these wildly insane op punches.

Speaker 1: 37:14

But he doesn't cool yeah, yeah, the story very cool, anime pretty decent. Um, I didn't look to see if it had a manga or a light novel because it wasn't. The story wasn't interesting enough for me to want to invest in light novels for that okay but, it was definitely interesting, you know.

Speaker 1: 37:31

It's just the healer thing has become big the last couple of years and so I was. I, you know, I've been checking them all out like let's watch at least one or two of these things to see if they're any good. And yeah, now redo of healer needs to be redone yeah, oh, wow.

Speaker 2: 37:46

Well, I'll still, I'll stay clear of it. I feel like I remember the name, maybe, but when I was googling the images I didn't it didn't see, so I don't think I've even seen it.

Speaker 1: 37:54

So if you're saying it's crap, man, it might have been high dive. It might have been high dive or hd I don't want to call it. It might have been that because I had a subscription to everything a few years ago okay, so I, I don't know well, I'll take your word, buddy.

Speaker 1: 38:09

We're good, I don't need to see it there's plenty of other ones I can watch well, I think it's, uh, probably about time to wrap up for the week, so I just want to say, you know, thank you for jumping into the realm with us. Be sure to follow realm jumpers wherever you get your podcast, whatever your favorite podcast platform is, and don't forget to share your thoughts, theories and favorite moments with us. If you want to chime in on the novel versus manga argument, I think you guys should do that. Either check us out on the website or, you know, in comments anywhere, youtube, wherever you find us.

Speaker 2: 38:42

Absolutely, guys. Don't forget to join us next week. We'll have another great episode to talk and you know, talk shit about and see what we can do. Until then, stay epic, and keep exploring the worlds you love. Leave us a review on your podcast platform and if you're stuck on what to say, just let us know your favorite anime. We'll be fine. See you in the next realm. Thank you.