Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome to Realm Jumpers. I'm Andrew and this is my co-host, jordan.

Speaker 2: 0:09

Hey everyone. We're here to dive into the worlds of fantasy and anime, bringing you epic stories and unforgettable adventures.

Speaker 1: 0:16

We'll be talking world building, unforgettable villains and everything that makes these genres legendary. So let's jump into the Realm and everything that makes these genres legendary. So let's jump into the Realm. If you think Goku vs Vegeta is the peak of anime rivalries, you haven't been paying attention. This is Realm Jumpers, and today we're breaking down the rivalries that have been redefining the genre.

Speaker 2: 0:39

I am so excited for this one buddy. This is going to be a good episode. I can just feel it. Oh yeah, dude, I'm ready.

Speaker 1: 0:43

I mean, this is mostly be a good episode. I could just feel it. Oh yeah, dude, I'm ready. I mean, this is mostly your territory, but I still have opinions.

Speaker 2: 0:48

I always have oh yeah, oh, your opinions on one of these two is gonna be interesting.

Speaker 1: 0:52

I already, I already know, I think there's probably two of them were my opinion freak. Is that dude talking about?

Speaker 2: 0:58

yeah, what does he mean?

Speaker 1: 0:59

well, let's just start with.

Speaker 2: 1:00

Uh, you know goku vegeta. I mean you kind of mentioned him in the opener there and you know they're one of the main ones. First off, I am a vegeta stan to the day I die. He is my guy, although goku has grown on me over the years.

Speaker 1: 1:13

Now I like um, and it's probably for the same reason, to be honest, because goku's just too and he's too much naruto like he's he's just like already, starting with, the hot takes world power, like that's all he cares about. Like I gotta be the best.

Speaker 2: 1:29

You know what I mean yeah, goku's um, I like his silliness a little bit, but then sometimes it does get a little ridiculous because you're like dude, you're gonna give the villain a sense of being, are you? Are you serious? Like, what are we talking about? But you know they, they're just fundamentally different.

Speaker 2: 1:42

You know the whole pride versus progress thing and you know Vegeta starts off heavy man, he pops into the story and he's killing people and straight villain. I mean total, I love killing and I'm going to kill everyone around me. You know, he's just, he's balls to the wall man, he's ready to go. And then, of course, we get back to him on Namek. And now he's really mad because he lost to Goku. How dare this lowborn Saiyan beat the prince? And he is just on a tear man Killing poor Namekian villagers.

Speaker 2: 2:14

I mean killing Frieza's Ben, which is pretty cool, but he was just, you know, on a tear and then, of course, culminating in the iconic Super Saiyan. Goku hits it. He can't, you know, he dies, frieza kills him. Yeah, and Vegeta is one of those guys, man, he comes back, it's wish back and he just starts training. You know, nonstop I'm going to get Super Saiyan. If he can do it, I can do it and I really think that you know he goes from villain to, honestly, his best friend at this point. Him and goku are boys. I mean, they really are. If you watch super they might you know he hates him a little bit, but he needs him.

Speaker 1: 2:50

So that's dragon ball super right with a tournament yeah that no yeah the, the tournament of power. That's dragon ball super right. Yep, that has one of my favorite uh vegeta speeches oh, and that tournament of power when, uh, yeah, I don't, I can't even what he say Step into the domain of the gods, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 3:07

Dude, epic scene, epic. And then you know him. I like that they twisted them into friends, best friends, because it's one of those weird things where he hates them but he really doesn't, because if Goku were to die for real forever, he would be like all his motivation's gone.

Speaker 1: 3:29

Why, for real, forever he would be like all his motivation's gone. Why would he train anymore? You know he really wouldn't. He probably would just be chilling most of the time. Yeah, I mean this was the I I don't, this was kind of the defining the start of the you know, the anime rivals, I think like I can't think of one beef and same. Yeah, I mean it started out as what? Jealousy, honestly, because it felt like jealousy in and oh 100 dude and not just because goku was stronger.

Speaker 2: 3:46

It was like you're stronger, but I'm like how could you be stronger than me? It doesn't make sense, yeah right but I can respect the grind.

Speaker 1: 3:53

I mean he's trying to get stronger.

Speaker 2: 3:54

That's like his main thing, dude right, his flashback scene when he achieved super saiyan and he was training and like was about to die on that random planet and he was like just losing it and so angry that he couldn't do it. And then he snaps and that's when he hits super saiyan epic scene, man, I mean just it's epic. You know, of course goku super saiyan scene is probably more iconic. But vegeta was like I'm gonna, I'm gonna get there. You know, if he can do it, I can do it.

Speaker 2: 4:21

And I think one of my most favorite funny vegeta moments is when his own son and goten turned super saiyan and he's like a seven-year-old can turn into it. Are you kidding me? You've turned this into a plate, a child's blade. He was so mad about it. But then it makes sense because they're they're having kids when they're already like super saiyan one, two, whatever. Of course the kids would be able to do it quicker, but there's no meaning, you know what I mean. But yeah, definitely, uh, an iconic, uh rival system. You know, going on this one, I can't wait for your takes on the naruto sasuke. I remember you went to rant about them before. I mean, come on, start a little bit here well, here's the thing, dude.

Speaker 1: 5:01

So you know, we've already mentioned this kind of defining moment or how a rivalry, and you would think, following that, that people would follow the. You know the formula. But I, I I'm opposite. Take you gotta, you gotta find different ways to meet the same for the rivalry that just is the same thing over. It's gonna get boring, um, and I think great partially, that's the problem with the Naruto versus Sasuke rivalry. And here's where I'm going to get flamed is because, dude, it's boring, like you didn't do anything special, like it's the same. Ok, so you know I've already gone off on the tangent of Sasuke's epically tragic backstory, which I cannot stand. And it's not that it's a bad backstory, it's just they drug it out way too long they did. And it's not that it's a bad backstory, it's just they drug it out way too long they did. But aside from that tragic backstory, there's almost no difference between goku jita and naruto sasuke, like, yes, there are major differences, I understand that, but it feels the same, it's got the same energy.

Speaker 2: 5:55

It's to me like the difference with this with me is like okay, goku, he wasn't like chosen and just magically got all the he trained his ass off. Vegeta did too. Naruto did he trained his ass off. Sasuke was just golden boy. I mean, he's just literally from jump. I can do all this great stuff because I'm a Uchiha and I like that.

Speaker 2: 6:18

That made Naruto like this sucks. I want to be as strong as him, which is that part of the north journey is great. But in my opinion, sasuke never grew as a character really and it was just I'm mad, I'm emo. Obviously you have a terrible backstory. We all agree and be upset about it, but it was like I'm gonna screw over people to get stronger, if I have to. Naruto never did that, so it was one of those things. And I think the part with sasuke which it's funny because I have him nartan never did that, so it was one of those things. And I think the part with sasuke which it's funny because I have him up there, like I like sasuke as a character, but oh, same dude, I like.

Speaker 2: 6:52

This isn't me saying like sasuke is the worst, like, yeah, like I like him but also like I think I don't respect too much of him for a long time, because it was like hey, if I got to go work for or tomorrow, I'll do it, if I have to do this, I'll do it. And it just kind of got to the point where it's like buddy, you know that the village didn't kill your family, like that was donzo. So why are you gonna like attack the leaf village? Why are you gonna all of a sudden want to be like well, I want to be the okage, like you never cared about that because he doesn't care.

Speaker 1: 7:19

Dude, he's a spoiled little brat.

Speaker 2: 7:21

That's my problem with Sasuke. Yeah, dude, that's my thing with him. Like I can understand. His backstory is terrible. I understand you found out your brother was good and not really bad. I get all that. I understand you being like well, I want to kill the dude that set this up On board, brother, let's go. But now you're like I'm going to destroy and kill everyone in the Leaf Village. Huh, destroy and kill everyone in the leaf village. Huh, what? What are you talking about? So he just always seemed to just go like too far. And then I understand they had to have a final battle because they built it up from the original show to the, you know, shippuden. But I just think it just was handled so bad because that fight he's trying to kill him and naruto wasn't fighting like that. So it just, oh, it just seemed like the writing wrote into a corner and it was like we have to fight. So he's gonna just go back on everything and he's like well, I'm gonna kill you and be okage, it was right, it's yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:14

Um, they ran out of stuff for sasuke to say, they used it all up in the first 800 episodes right, right, like I I told you before, I would have rather him been like hey, I don't want to murder you, I'd like to fight you for okage. At least. That's like an honorable battle, right this? Dude was trying to cut his head off the whole fight yeah, no, for sure, come on, man, you know.

Speaker 1: 8:36

Has anybody ever checked this? What would the episode count for? Narutobi took out all of woe.

Speaker 2: 8:41

Is me sasuke oh man, I mean they drug on like the next time power leveling dragon ball z, like it just kept going and going.

Speaker 1: 8:49

Dude, I bet you can cut out like 70 episodes I was thinking 50 at least, but yeah, 70, I yeah and then cut out the naruto on the uh, on the um, the swing cut that out too, nah you know what?

Speaker 2: 9:03

no, that was impactful most of the time yeah, but like after the 20th, ninth time, like we get it. You know, the kids hated you? Yeah, absolutely so. All right, let's move on. So we got light and l from death note, which is such a different type of you know situation absolutely.

Speaker 1: 9:19

This is like a sherlock holmes versus moriarty and a thing, for that's the way I've been, you know and the thing that's so crazy about this and I might get flamed for this one.

Speaker 2: 9:29

I love Death Note, but when L gets murked like it's not that good anymore.

Speaker 1: 9:34

It went downhill.

Speaker 2: 9:35

It went so downhill and I understand like his protagies come in and all that, but how are you going to tell me that L lost in this? I don don't remember the kid's name, the one that actually won at the end. I don't even remember which part of it was this ending? I don't remember, yeah, and I remember the ending, but and it just it wasn't as good, although the l verse light part was so different than anything still to this day to be honest.

Speaker 1: 9:57

Well, I mean that I wasn't kidding about the sherlock holmes moriarty thing, dude, that's what it is like. That whole the the story arc when um light has himself forget. You know, he gives him oh yeah, and he has himself forget that he was ever like holding the book. So then he's like got this whole plan that he's put. I don't know, I loved that. Part of the art was great and that was like this feels like a sherlock home or you already think we're? Definitely not friends this isn't like goku and naruto you know, and these other fellas.

Speaker 1: 10:24

This is like I fucking guts and uh it's just light.

Speaker 2: 10:29

Was such a psycho man yeah, he was absolutely insane but like compelling because he's the main character, like it's just that was. I still haven't seen anything like that and it's been years and years. I don't think they've ever seen another series. Quite like the villain is the main character and you kind of like him, although you know he needs to lose, but you don't want him to lose. I don't know, I can't think of anything. So I still think to this day that the chess match and in a weird way, like Light, really thought he was doing justice but it was kind of a facade because the second he almost got caught. He was cool with killing regular people. You know what I mean but did he though?

Speaker 1: 11:07

did he really think he was doing justice outside of the first? No, that's what I said. Maybe the first four episodes.

Speaker 2: 11:13

He thought, yeah, and then it was like, oh well, if I have, I'm a piece of crap. Yeah, he, he, yeah, great, I mean such a great series, all right. So the next one, man, I I finished Black Clover right, or are you right at the end of it?

Speaker 1: 11:26

I'm dude, I'm so close to which now I'm just mad.

Speaker 2: 11:30

Same dude. I've been waiting years, but uh, you know, versus Asta, which we talked about a little bit before, but it's very different than the Naruto Sasuke one.

Speaker 1: 11:41

Although it seems like it's going to be the same, and that was one of the three reasons that I originally stopped watching it. Episode one the first time when Black Clover first came out, I watched episode one just because you know the trailer looked. Watch episode one and I'm like not turning this off. I was like this dude has got way too much in common with Naruto and Natsu. I was like it's the weirdest mashup of the two most idiotic tendencies that those two guys have and I was like this is terrible. I don't want to watch it. You were the one that convinced me to like pick it back up, but and I did. I had to get past. It was, I don't lie, it was so much yelling. I had to get past like episode four, but I, I think this one's named right you, you named this one, you know, versus Asta, and I don't think it's you know, versus. Also, have you seen the show?

Speaker 1: 12:26

it's asta versus everybody, because every other episode somebody's making a new rivalry with austin, they're like you're my rival.

Speaker 2: 12:32

My favorite is the the fire kid and he's just like. He's like what are you talking about? Man? Like he doesn't even see anyone as a rival, but you know everyone else is like back.

Speaker 1: 12:40

Maybe he sees the captains but no, he does fogoleon, because, uh, fogoleon acknowledges him as a rival first, and he, you know he's eating it up and that he's using that to try to push himself to be stronger. That's right yami. I don't. I don't think yami ever actually says it, because yami's in a whole different stratosphere. But oh yeah, silva, um, what's his face hair boy, because yeah, noelle her brother her brother, the one with the hair in his face.

Speaker 1: 13:07

Oh, uh, yeah, yeah yeah, he acknowledged asta as a rival too, and it's like, dude, it's like every three episodes, once you get past the first, you know, once he becomes a magic knight, it's like this is asta versus everybody. This is that's the rivalry. It's awesome everybody else.

Speaker 2: 13:22

they're like captains. Talking to like a low rank dude who just started, but yeah, but in his mind it's you know, it's a, you know like that's he's got to, he's got to be the wizard king before you know it is, you know.

Speaker 1: 13:32

This one, yeah. This one's refreshing for me, though, because this is more about the actual power of friendship than you know the previous ones, right friendship than you know the previous ones, right light and l. They hated each other. Um, goku and vegeta. Obviously they started out enemies. Uh, natsu versus sasuke we can beat that one to death, yeah, um, but this one, you know, versus asta, they're friends for the most part.

Speaker 2: 13:56

Asta, I mean, you know, is a dick, but they're they're they're friends especially when it shows the backstory and it's like dude, he was fighting for you. Like you're really gonna like be an ass now.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Yeah, he just got his ass kicked to get your necklace back. And now you're gonna be like I'm gonna be the wizard king too, like wait bro, what? Why did? I thought we're. We're brothers. What are you talking about? Yeah, I'm gonna give this necklace back to this other guy. Yeah, like you.

Speaker 2: 14:20

And then I always just felt like I mean, yes, although it does have the old golden boy syndrome like Sasuke, where he just gets every power, you know, because he's blessed by magic, but it is cool that it does they do seem to be leveling up at the same level. You know, like meeting each other, like it is refreshing in a weird way. I mean it's very similar to the like the next one, the Natsu Gray one.

Speaker 1: 14:45

I mean they are buddies but they throw down all the time fire, yeah they're more friends than and this is like the tears right, so like if you were to go less friends versus like closer to being friends versus further away from friends. Like you know not soon gray are definitely closer to the friends versus further away from friends. Like you know, natsu and gray are definitely closer to the. We're actually friends, we're just pretending. Yeah, then, like natsu and sasuke, because that's almost like a natsu wanted to be friends with everybody, because nobody was his friend and sasuke just didn't give a crap, because everyone wanted him anyway, right that?

Speaker 1: 15:20

doesn't really count, like that's not a great friendship.

Speaker 2: 15:23

Um, so yeah, natsu and Gray and Yuno versus Asta, those are the ones that are actually close to you know, like actual based on friendships and you know it's funny because as long as they're friends, until Natsu goes a little too far with the jokes and Gray's taking off his shirt and he's like or they're drinking.

Speaker 1: 15:43

Put your clothes back on gray.

Speaker 2: 15:44

Yeah, I, they're just, they're a funny team. And then, you know, gray later on gets way stronger with his other part and stuff.

Speaker 1: 15:51

His dad was insane, dude, insane. That's off topic, but his dad was insane yeah that I love them.

Speaker 2: 15:57

As you know, two buddies slash rivals. But come on, dragon slayer. Sorry buddy, he beats you. Sorry man, he's got dragon slayer magic well, here's the thing.

Speaker 1: 16:08

I heard a rumor, um, and I'm not going to find it right now, but I heard a rumor that when he um, he was writing that he had originally intended to unveil gray as another dragon slayer during the during the tournament arc, and then he changed his mind. Was there an ice one? I don't know, but that's what gray was supposed to be like in his original. That's pretty cool, like in his mind. Canon stuff.

Speaker 2: 16:29

You know what is he? A demon slayer, right? He ended up being a demon slayer or something, right? Yeah?

Speaker 1: 16:34

yeah, but he was going to be like the ice dragon slayer. Oh man, that would have been cool, but but the demon thing was cool.

Speaker 2: 16:41

Though the demon thing it was, it was cool, cool. All right, so let's move on. So the next one you can't talk on at all, because I don't think you started it.

Speaker 1: 16:49

I started Vigilantes and I know you told me to do it the other way around, but I wanted to watch the prequel first.

Speaker 2: 16:54

dude, it's fine bro, it's fine, did you like it Slide?

Speaker 1: 16:59

and Glide. No, that is the greatest name for the worst power.

Speaker 2: 17:03

So wait till you see how that goes on and how he gets better with it, but yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:07

Oh no, I'm sure. Yeah, no, it's good, it's funny.

Speaker 2: 17:09

So in the main series, bakugo and Midoriya. So I don't know if you've seen clips or anything, but Bakugo is straight up bullying material. Just bully the hell out of this boy. And you know, poor, poor Midoriya, poor Deku has no powers. Bakugo shoots bobs from his hands like dude, stop being a jerk. And they were childhood friends like, grew up together and Bakugo was always the leader of the group because he was the strongest quirk user of their little friend group. Deku didn't have any at all, so to him he's like. You know, he was never like, hated Bakugou and even when, if I remember correctly, I think someone was going to drown, maybe Bakugou and he saved him. He was like you don't need to save me, I don't need your sympathy type stuff.

Speaker 2: 17:54

But when good old Midoriya gets one for all power and starts having abilities, bakugo is furious because he thought that he was hiding his power their whole lives and he was like you little bastard, how dare you hide this from me? So is it like when Sasuke finds out that Naruto is actually jealous of the power? No, so the whole thing with that is in the my Hero world, all Might, which is the goat pretty much. He gives a piece of hair to Midoriya and he's like you got to eat it if you want to be the next user of my power. So he actually passes it to Midoriya. The only problem is that poor Midoriya is already. He didn't grow up with this power, so he pretty much has to like slowly become accustomed where if he punches someone with it it'll break his hand and stuff. So no one can know that that power was passed on Like it's a secret, so you can't tell Bakugo. And Bakugo is like you've been lying to me, that you've had a power this entire time. So he feels slighted and like I thought we were friends I guess not. So he really tries to bully him. And then it kind of you know, goes from there and Midori gets stronger and stronger and he's always getting stronger, which pushes Bakugou to get stronger.

Speaker 2: 19:13

And then eventually I mean not a spoiler, because we're way far ahead in the series now it's almost over, I think it's like the last season's coming up soon and Baku learns that All Might gave him the power. Well, all Might was Baku's favorite hero too. So it's like this whole thing, like I'm going to keep up with you. I can be the next All Might, and then, as it kind of wraps the story. It's like a mutual respect situation. Um, they do end up fighting um, testing each other out, and they both are pretty equal. But midoriya, just, he blows past because that's the story. He has to um, but but it becomes a respect and it becomes a like um, you know, sorry that I treated you that way. I didn't you know, he didn't know, he thought that he was being lied to so he was really being a dick of it, really, um, but no, it no.

Speaker 2: 19:58

Baku is a great character. I thought originally you'd think they're doing the Sasuke thing with him, like joining a bad guy to get stronger, and it completely. He's like I'll never be bad, I want to be, I'm a hero, even though he yells at people and curses at people and he's a little abrasive. But he's not the Sasuke Like. But he's not the Sasuke like. If I have to be bad to get stronger, I'm going to do it. That's not Bakugo. So how do you think?

Speaker 1: 20:20

this one like advanced the rivalry trope, or did it just kind of more of the same lately told?

Speaker 2: 20:28

I think it did advance it because originally it's framed that you kind of hate Bakugo because he's a bully and it really kind of grows Midoriya because right before he even gets the all might, he has no power. A villain attacks, he grabs bakugo bakugo's gonna die and he runs out and pulls him out of this thing with no power. So it shows midoriya's like I'm gonna be a hero no matter what, and that does inspire bakugo to be like want to be a hero. I think it was good because they didn't do the I'm going to get stronger at any expense thing. I'm going to get stronger on my own, which is what Bacchus was trying to do.

Speaker 2: 21:05

I think it did push it forward. Of course it has the whole superhero angle, so it's a little different already, you know. But in a weird way you have two characters that they want to become the successor to All. Might is literally like superman at this point. So they want to be the next symbol of peace and they're both vying for this. Uh, you know this. Uh, I don't want to even say title, but kind of a title. I think it pushed it forward. Um, but they grew a lot because it was definitely antagonistic, into respect and it wasn't quick. It took like a long time. It ended up being bakugan, pushed him to be to master his power faster, type thing gotcha.

Speaker 1: 21:42

So what about? Uh, as far as the you know the trope is concerned, in anime you have new shows like windbreak, where it becomes like another thing, where sakura is, it's kind of like an asta situation. You know it's sakura versus everybody. Everybody's become his rival. But they also blend in the power of friendship and they mention it in the show. You know like everybody's getting stronger because Sakura showed up and you know his fresh take on things is like pushing everybody to be better. That's the power of friendship. That's exactly what that is. So is there anything that they need to do to change the trope Like, or is it good on its own, as long as you keep trying to a fresh spin on it?

Speaker 2: 22:19

I mean you're gonna have to put a fresh spin on it, like kind of what you're saying earlier, otherwise it's gonna be the same. But if you're, if you, you know all these different ones we talked about, these are all still the same. Well, besides, uh, l and like um, everyone else, it is kind of they do have their own little fresh spins on things, and then some of them do better than others of, because are they friends? Are they not like all that stuff? Yeah, yeah, um, I don't think the trope.

Speaker 2: 22:44

I mean I wouldn't change the trope yeah, no, it's not tired yet, yeah, I would try to put unique spins on it because you kind of have you have it's part of shonen like you have to have a rival situation, because that's what makes one of or both characters need to grow and that's the thing that pushes them past their quote limits right A lot of times. I think you probably need it in most shonen, which is what we're kind of seeing when you're reading through all this stuff or talking about it. But there's also just you got to do it like you're saying a windbreaker, you.

Speaker 2: 23:16

You know that's interesting story because he was always ostracized because he looked different. He was always had to fight on his own. Now he joins a gang or a group, whatever that they're all like got each other's back and they don't care that he looks different. They're like hey, can you fight? And even if you can't fight, the one kid can't fight at all and he, they're protecting him, like they love him too. So I, I like that. You know it's kind of like a different spin on it. For sure?

Speaker 1: 23:39

well, so that's the, that's the thing, right, though it's essentially the same story as naruto, if you, if you take it down to the bare bones, right like you've got abused, slash, slash, ostracized, who has to fight his own battles, and he's looking for, he's looking for friends, except he won't admit that he's looking for friends yeah, you know, naruto does admit that, and that's the fresh spin, for naruto wanted friends sakura, still pretending that he doesn't need yeah, because he's like if I become the leader the strongest, then everyone, that'll be okay.

Speaker 2: 24:07

Meanwhile, he's like got a whole group of people around that he's realizing, or like right you know like, hey, buddy, we're all your friends.

Speaker 1: 24:13

This is the power of friendship circle.

Speaker 2: 24:14

Yeah, hey, rainbow hugs yeah, right now let's go kick some ass which, by the way, side note on that do they have teachers? Where's the teachers in that show, bro? I thought about that?

Speaker 1: 24:26

what are they teaching them?

Speaker 2: 24:27

advanced, advanced, whoop, ass like they're chilling in class and I'm like why do they go to class if there's not a teacher?

Speaker 1: 24:33

they're all gonna graduate with gardening degrees outside of that. I don't know. Dude, I don't. The school's vandalized. They're all going to graduate with gardening degrees Outside of that? I don't know.

Speaker 2: 24:40

Dude, the school's vandalized. They're all just chilling and the kid walks in, they all get in a fight. I'm like I love this show, but is there adults? What's going on? There are no adults. I guess he's alone. He seems to live alone.

Speaker 1: 24:50

He doesn't have parents, so yeah, how does that work, how work, how does that work, because that's every shonen ever they don't have parents where are your parents like who is responsible for you child?

Speaker 2: 25:03

and sara toby, sara toby clearly did a terrible job that's another episode on it.

Speaker 1: 25:08

Yeah, but I mean like that's, that's what it is shonen is. You know what I've just discovered? What shonen is about?

Speaker 2: 25:14

shonen is about terrible parents dead beat dads, just deadbeat or leaving right. You know good old uh going in jane right yeah, no, it's I got stuff to do kids.

Speaker 1: 25:25

Yeah, that's what shonen is. So it's. It's a modern peter pan story that I.

Speaker 2: 25:31

That's that shonen I mean it's an alarming amount of them that they're not the best dad. I mean goku's not really a good dad.

Speaker 1: 25:37

You know what I mean it's not so much that they're not the best, it's just they're not there, right yeah, they're all gone.

Speaker 2: 25:44

The parents are always gone they gotta train, they gotta go on a mission. You know, yeah, yeah, well, I I think we could do the honorable mention. I mean ichigo and uru from bleach. You know, I love my boy, ichigo, but you know what's weird? I never saw uru as a rival to him, because he's so much stronger than him.

Speaker 2: 26:02

Well, I mean, I think this is probably why it's an honorable mention, right like yeah, yeah he's like, but it's weird because I feel like uru is a rival in uru's mind, but ichigo just doesn't even think about that. He's like you're not even on my level, kid, what are you talking about? Because I, I think uru likes uh, urahime, and rahimi doesn't care about that because she's in love with ichigo, right? I just think ichigo is just like living his life and this other guy's like hating on him.

Speaker 1: 26:26

He doesn't even know, I don't know. I will say the um, all the smack talk in bleach is and and I love sub. Uh, let preface that by saying I love sub yeah I I. There are only a few that I watch. Bleach is one of those ones I gotta watch in dub because the smack talk is better in dub.

Speaker 2: 26:44

Dude, he kills it in the smack talk. He's just Ichigo is one of the best. He just he runs that mouth. Man, I love it. That's why I love him. He's always running his mouth, for sure. Well, yeah, I think that's pretty much most of them. Now, are we? You want to move on to the rumor time? Yeah, let's dive into realm room um, these are spicy ones this week. Oh man, I don't even know. We got two big ones that I don't really know which one is. All right, I'm gonna take this first one.

Speaker 1: 27:11

I'm gonna take the first one just okay, because it's funny and it's not funny, it's terrible, and I want to be sad and cry. The beginning after the end. The fans have started a petition to completely end the anime and re. Just restart it from the get-go.

Speaker 2: 27:26

They're like nope, scrap this crap, get rid of it, let's, let's start over like the first part, like a part of me is like maybe you know say like, can we get a new studio for season two? They're like nah, no, just scrap delete it stop releasing the episodes and that's the best part right though, because usually you're right.

Speaker 1: 27:44

It's like can we get somebody else for season two? It's like no, that's the best part. Right though, because usually you're right. It's like can we get somebody else for season two? It's like no, that's not the petition. The petition is straight up like delete it, stop this so this is.

Speaker 2: 27:53

This is what's confusing about this to me, because I I'm gonna end up reading it because everyone said it's a great story and I want to read fantastic story. Yeah, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it. But the thing that blows me away is every report that I read about this, which there are so many about the, the terrible animation, and I agree like come on, guys, um, but besides, that is, the creator chose this studio is that verified?

Speaker 2: 28:19

I don't. I've seen it like 50 times where it's like turtle, whoever they chose, and I'm like was it you chose them because you got a kickback, like what is going on here? Because why would?

Speaker 1: 28:29

you. This is crazy and that that doesn't track for me because, honestly, even if you get a kickback, you're cannibalizing your own story and the ability for it to ever go anywhere in animation yeah, yeah, I dude, and especially like it's a webtoon, it's a manhwa, and then you had just had so leveling, which was amazing action, everything was great.

Speaker 2: 28:50

And then this comes out. It's got all this hype and then it's just like you guys watched the episode before you released them, right, like you saw. It was just like did you not quality control these?

Speaker 1: 29:01

you know what t-bait, the t-bait, anime, anime can be summed up just grab one of those old, like flip style comic books where you just flip.

Speaker 2: 29:11

That that's t-bait, that's the dude, it's crazy and I feel like I would like. This is the thing. I feel like I would like it. I feel like I like the designs and like it's interesting so far, but the second you're doing a punch and it's just like frozen. And then there's lines, action lines. I'm like what is going on?

Speaker 1: 29:28

nobody watched this well, and it double makes me mad, right, because this story blends in a little bit of the chinese cultivation stuff, which is awesome. I like that. I. I'm just starting to get into that a little bit, like I've started to read a few series that innovation stuff and it's good and I was super excited to see this like take place and now I'm like I'm gonna go sign the 20 times every email that you have all of them all of the.

Speaker 2: 29:55

Yes, I I thought it was people. Honestly, I thought people were just being dramatic because, like it's not so lovely, it's. So yeah, then I, I watched the two already. I'm gonna watch the whole series, but I watch them and I'm just like. I'm just confused, like very why did you guys do this? Or why did you choose a studio that didn't have the chops? I? I need to understand it. At this point the author needs to say something like you guys can't just pretend like it's not, I don't know it's a strange situation it absolutely in the theme of anime that should have been great and are just mad.

Speaker 1: 30:28

You want to lead off on the next one dude, it's just like the.

Speaker 2: 30:32

The other anime was better, the what? Are we talking about from the dumb anime, from like no, I know, but you gotta talk about what it is no, but I'm just like, you know.

Speaker 2: 30:40

I the original anime was better that is the hottest of hot it was like I'm sorry, and you're watching this and like look, I I don't understand why, lady or whatever, why was she? I felt like she was in the show more than he was. Okay, and I'm like I'm confused why we're focusing so much on the honor and then it doesn't. It's like we're not watching this for this character like yeah, no, absolutely like. This is now when there was some action with dante. It was cool. I still don't know why he didn't have his guns.

Speaker 1: 31:13

Okay, I don't know, hold on. Devil may cry. Peaked at who are we shooting at? That was peak, that was it.

Speaker 2: 31:20

That was it, but time. How did she beat him in fighting? I don't like what?

Speaker 1: 31:24

this wasn't devil may cry. This wasn't devil may cry.

Speaker 2: 31:27

This was lady may try, but I don't know the episode that, bro, that is the best, that dude. I was watching this and I'm like, okay, I guess we're focusing on lady her backstory, okay, and rabbit was cool. Rabbit was cool whatever I've got issues with that too, though, I know. But like, how in the world are we gonna make demons like they're just being persecuted now? Yeah, look, I I'm all we're doing like what? What are we?

Speaker 1: 31:55

doing. Dude, I'm all for the like. Let's give the evil bad guys some character depth and make it a introspective story where we talk about society as a whole. I'm all about that. That's fine, but time and place and devil may cry is not the time or the place to have an introspective on our society. That's a shoot-em-up action. It should have remained a shoot-em-up action. Add a little bit of story, and we were looking for the cocky one-liners. We got some of that, but we got more false bravado with I have no idea what I'm doing.

Speaker 2: 32:28

Um, that was I don't know, here's what's weird action was fantastic though the action was cool, but like you have him making jokes, which is great, perfect, and then you have this like super heartfelt thing where, like we're just refugees getting killed. It's like what are we even? What are we doing? Like it doesn't belong in. Devil may cry. It doesn't. It doesn't match the tone of the show, it doesn't match the game story. You're just trying to make some kind of statement and you've made the statement that you don't know what the hell you're doing and let me just say that, the entire episode, with no words, and it's just the episode of backstory, yeah, backstory between lady and rabbit.

Speaker 1: 33:07

I'm like, bro, I no longer care about either one of you. I hope you both die.

Speaker 2: 33:12

Yeah, I was out, I was forward through and I like lady outside of this show dude, they made her obnoxious, they made her too dang strong and they focused way too much on her and honestly, yeah, do I need to hear? Look, I curse okay, but every other word, can we just chill a little bit, like it's, it's, it's just coming off? She was obnoxious, like that's just every time that she was on screen. I literally I'm like, can we move on? And and she was on there a lot, dude, like towards the end it was like literally half the episode of every at least, at least and I'm like is it called lady may cry or don't, devil don't?

Speaker 2: 33:50

what are we doing? Like, where is dante? And then he would just oh, he got caught again. What? What are we talking about, man? It was weird. I'm very disappointed and I'm very and I know we mentioned it off air earlier. You don't really care about the politics part, but also that don't need to be in there. You know you don't need to be throwing that into there.

Speaker 2: 34:10

It was this isn't that anime it's not the anime and I don't know if you knew that was kevin conroy. It's his last voiceover he ever did before he died and hearing him that last time and that's the character. And it's like this stupid politic thing you're talking about. Like bro, they're called demons. Man like I, what are we doing? Like like I, I just don't. Well, oh, the low level ones, they're not bad, but whatever, what then? If that's the case, then why is sparta do all this? Well, and what?

Speaker 1: 34:38

was honestly like okay, I get it, they're not all bad, because obviously Sparta was good, right, or approaching good. Dante is mostly good Most of the time. Yeah, virgil also. Yeah, that's like I don't know kind of go either way. Virgil's good sometimes, right.

Speaker 2: 34:54

Yeah, but they're going to. They're going to mess him up, they're going to ruin it.

Speaker 1: 34:57

Well, no he's still as far as what that story is concerned, and that's the thing. Like that's not, devil may cry, I don't care. Like it's you think about it in the video game terms, right, like it's a shoot them up action thing. That's what I want to freaking see like um, that's that, that's all it was supposed to have been. This isn't the time for social introspection. This isn't the time for politics politics weirdness.

Speaker 1: 35:22

Like it's not that I don't agree with some of the shit you're saying, but like I just want to watch dante blow up demons.

Speaker 2: 35:30

I'm not here for the rest of that. Well, the games aren't even about that either. That's the thing that doesn't make any sense, and then it's whatever. Like it's just. I was very happy for this and it was just disappointing. The action that he was fighting was cool, but like I would watch a second season, but I'm not. If I do, I'm not excited about it.

Speaker 1: 35:48

Well, yeah, okay, so there's a thing, right, I will watch season two absolutely, but I won't watch season one again, um at all. Yeah, yeah, whereas other shows, you know, like naruto, I've watched three or four times, obviously not all, because that's a lot, but, um, you know, the first, the original series. I've watched that. Or four times, obviously not all because that's a lot, but, um, you know, the first, the original series, I've watched that two or three. And then shippuden, I've watched that several times in like batches, right, yeah, not all the one, but I've watched story arcs, uh, this version of devil may cry. You know what I did when I finished that I turned on the old one and I watched the old one. So I was gonna say, how, how is that one in comparison?

Speaker 2: 36:21

now, I was thinking of looking at it again. Okay, so the old one. So I was going to say how is that one in comparison? Now, I was thinking of looking at it again.

Speaker 1: 36:25

Ok. So the old one's crap too, but the old one's crap too, but it hits Dante Like it's. It hits Dante like he's.

Speaker 1: 36:32

I do remember that from that one I was like hey, this is him, Like he's very like it hits the low key, like I don't really care about anything, but I'm still gonna throw the cocky one-liners and blow demons up. Um, you know he's terrible at gambling and like it covers that a lot, and like there's stuff around dante that just happens where he's just being his cool, calm, collect itself and he throws a one-liner and then demons explode and you're like wait, how did you kill them with a one-liner? Okay, okay, not great anime, but better than that, more true to d Dante than what the new one was. And that sucks because I like Johnny Young Bosch and he did a great job as the voice actor. But it's like bro.

Speaker 1: 37:15

Why didn't you make him like actual Dante?

Speaker 2: 37:19

I think they were trying to add in. Unfortunately, maybe they were trying to elevate the storyline, but it doesn't need elevating. It's not the time or place for that on this. I'm sorry you, just it was yeah, cool, try, but you pissed off like the entire fan base, like literally everyone is mad.

Speaker 1: 37:34

So yeah, it's, it's a. There's a decent amount of people that are pretty upset about like it's. You know we're reaching t bait here with this, with levels of people not that bad, because the action was still great, true, true, true, and it was done cleanly and it looked beautiful it did, it did.

Speaker 2: 37:48

We just needed, you know, um 40 percent more dante and 40 percent last lady plays.

Speaker 1: 37:54

We've been all right, so this last one um, this last one crunchy rolls had its share of drama lately and you know we've covered a lot of it. We've probably missed some of it, but this latest thing, I'm kind of glad with their decision here they've they've made a u-turn and rolled back on their decision to use ai in anything except back-end stuff, and that's a problem, because originally they were talking about using ai to uh do dubs for, you know, shows that weren't gonna, which is terrible.

Speaker 1: 38:23

Don't do that. Don that, that's a horrible idea. You're stealing money out of people's pocket. Um subbing.

Speaker 2: 38:28

Would they? Were they going to do it for subbing too? Uh?

Speaker 1: 38:31

they were just going to do it for the, the captions, supposedly that's what I meant, but nobody ever does that. Nobody. That's not what happens.

Speaker 2: 38:46

You're the bad guy. Now you're the bad guy.

Speaker 1: 38:49

They're dubbing robot voices for everybody that sound like yeah, 100, so they they reversed the decision, though, which, you know, I kind of agree with that.

Speaker 1: 38:57

I think I I don't know if it was just because of the fan, you know the, the public outcry over it, or if it was just I would, I would. I would have to believe that this has more to do with everything that's gone down with chat, gpt lately and the noise that they've brought to ai with just the, the problems, the massive amount of problems, um, with putting things out there that aren't ready to be put out there. You know, you can make it. You could make you could make the case that everybody's that's going out there and making those studio ghibli, um, like the, the art off of other things. They're like they're making the studio studio ghibli ai art.

Speaker 2: 39:34

You could definitely put that down as like copyright infringement oh yeah, because there's there's a lot of issues with it and I think it's made enough noise that I think their decision here had nothing to do with the fans and everything.

Speaker 1: 39:45

This is too politically spicy to mess with and it's, and it's got a.

Speaker 2: 39:49

It's got a toxic flair to it, because people are really mad about it. So they're like you know what, let's just bail. But hope does that mean later they're gonna try, you know.

Speaker 1: 39:56

So that's my take right. That's what I think is gonna happen. When everything about ai is quieted down, they'll shove it back through and just kind of backdoor. Then we'll have robot ai dub voices. It's a weird world.

Speaker 2: 40:08

Man, that's the kind of. I heard there's an ai anime that was made, which I don't know much I saw of art. I was like wait what I'm like? Oh man, here we go.

Speaker 1: 40:16

So I heard about that as well, and I'll have to look it up. Um, I I don't even remember what podcast I was listening to. I think I was listening to anime addicts. Uh, I think it was them, anime addicts, anonymous, and I just saw.

Speaker 2: 40:29

Yeah, I saw someone was like wait what? And I heard it got banned or something like it got. I don't remember. It was something like they didn't let it go through or it was going to be on some site, or I don't really remember, but I'm like that's I mean I can't, yeah, yeah, we're going.

Speaker 1: 40:44

I can't speak to it enough because I didn't pay enough. Yeah, I'm like for me it's for me, it's another day in the life of. Oh, it's another thing. People are using ai for that. They shouldn't. The list grows right. What do we got for? Hot takes this time, buddy. All right, brother, which anime rivalry would be the deadliest in real life?

Speaker 2: 41:01

oh, I mean, dude, I guess light and hell man, he got that death note. You're going down, baby, it's over. Wow, I didn't even think about that one, bro. He's gonna be like dead you're done because light. Light doesn't play your. Second, he finds your name, especially with social like think of just time out for a sec. Death note doesn't really work in the modern social media world. I think you'd find it too easy A name, don't you think? Don't you think You'd be like who is? I mean? Maybe if you're a secret detective, maybe not, but if he's like, yeah, I'm killing this dude.

Speaker 1: 41:33

I think they should explore this as a follow-up series.

Speaker 2: 41:36

Yeah, it would be interesting, wouldn't it?

Speaker 1: 41:38

It's not Death Note.

Speaker 1: 41:47

It's twitter death twitter, death social media. Death x, death x. That sounds cool. What's your, uh, your one for this? Honestly, this is the I thought you were gonna go with this one goku versus vegeta, their early rivalry moments, like when they're fighting. Like when they're fighting, like I was thinking like more mass universe destruction, because everything that they do creates like like that's where I thought, that's where I thought you were gonna go and that's what I would go with, like in real life, because the just the fallout like light might kill one dude with the book, right but the fallout from goku exploding a building on accident just because he threw vegeta into it.

Speaker 1: 42:18

Those you know.

Speaker 2: 42:20

That's gonna kill a lot more people true, I was coming at it as uh, if I was a character, who would I? Now, I don't want l. Oh True, I was coming at it as a. If I was a character, who would? I know, I don't want L.

Speaker 1: 42:26

Oh yeah, now I was coming at it like which would be the you know the citizen. Yes, I'm the random guy. What's the what's the deadliest rivalry? Like what does the most damage?

Speaker 2: 42:37

It's good. What could take me?

Speaker 1: 42:49

yeah, yeah yeah, see we link different. That's why this works man well. I mean not, if I had slide and glide, I'd get out of there. You can get away. Yeah, you'd be able to just slide right on out of there.

Speaker 2: 42:52

Yeah well, I think that about wraps us up this week. Absolutely, man, this is definitely a fun episode. Uh, rival city for sure yeah, absolutely all right.

Speaker 1: 42:59

So love what we're doing. Hit that follow on your podcast app and smash that sub button on youtube. We'd love to hear your favorite anime rivalries, uh in the comments or online. So jump in and let us know yeah, guys, let's go jump in.

Speaker 2: 43:11

Thank you.